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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
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Replying to: hansienna (Oct 06, 2007 8:16 pm) I get your point, but trust me, the American auto industry is not collapsing under its own weight because of greedy CEOs. I haven't yet driven the new GC, but I have looked at it. Perhaps I will revise my statements at some point if I do drive it, but it seems to me that it did NOT pass the Ody and Sienna. Best case, it matched them. And that's been the problem for the Big Three...when's the last time when they launched a product that actually, truly, exceeded its benchmarks on merit alone? I can't think of one...maybe Cadillac is doing it with the CTS right now, but that's really all I can think of. I don't think Chrysler did it in this segment. And even if they do, and they somehow are able to match the average transaction price of the Sienna and Ody, they'll still not make nearly as much money as Honda and Toyota will thanks to years of capitulation to big labor.
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Oct 06, 2007 5:44 pm) If an American product is superior to a Japanese product, I'll consider it. I can think of some instances where this is the case. Even with the new Chrysler minivans, however, I'm not sure that this segment is one of them. Right now, 07 Odysseys are running under 08 Grand Caravans, and I think the Honda is probably still the superior prodcut, so... There seems to be a lot of people not willing to give the American owned automakers a try again or will always believe that foreign vehicles will always be superior. I guess that is your choice. But you can always find something superior with one minivan over the other. In some ways the Honda and Toyota is superior to the Chrysler minivans. In other ways, Chrysler minivans are superior to the Honda and Toyota. I don't think we have to go over the things each one has that the other doesn't, we've discussed it many times. But when you buy American made or owned, you are creating and saving American jobs, completely out side of the automotive industry. Maybe even saving your own. Let me put it this way. If we sit down with a calculator and add up how many vans Toyota and Honda sells and figure out the profit they make on each one. You have to believe at least half of that profit is leaving the country, creating jobs in Japan and not in America. Not only that, but very American that has a job with the automobile industry, creates jobs outside of the auto industry. Jobs that you and I have because of them. Because these guys buy furniture, go on vacation, buy insurance, food, eat out, buys cloths, guns, etc. So even if you work for the airlines, department or furniture store, sell insurance, work for the city, county or state, these guys help give us a job. Just look at what the American auto industry can do for just one segment of our industry. It's a trickle down effect in most of our industries, not just this one. The U.S. auto and machine-tool industries are now in the throes of the greatest destruction of human and physical capital in American history http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3250auto_n_nukes.html I just realized this should be in the (Minivan Shopping - Domestic vs. Foreign) thread and not in the 2008. So if your going to answer, that should be the place to put it. |
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Oct 06, 2007 8:25 pm) "Bloated" and "Capitulation" are words used to incite a certain political power base by blaming the actual workers for problems instead of carefully investigating the real cause of a problem. 
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Replying to: hansienna (Oct 07, 2007 8:34 am) You are right though, this discussion should go to another thread so I'll shut up now. Though frankly, the foreign/domestic discussion is redundant to this one because the only competition thread we can have compares domestic to foreign since that's all there is--one Canadian minivan against Japanese and Korean ones.
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Replying to: hansienna (Oct 07, 2007 8:34 am)
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Oct 07, 2007 9:32 am)  Chrysler is headquarted in the USA and T&C / GC are made in Fenton, Missouri, USA; and in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Toyota is headquartered in Japan but the Sienna is made in Indiana, USA. Honda is headquartered in Japan but the Odyssey is made in Alabama, USA after being made in Ontario, Canada for years. |
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Replying to: dennisctc (Oct 07, 2007 10:10 am) There is no such thing as triple-time in the auto industry. Double is as high as it gets and that's only for Sundays and holidays, when most of the plants are shut down and only maintenance personnel are working. I've seen much of what you're talking about in various jobs I've had over the years. I used to work at a furniture warehouse and the employees would take breaks and sit, smoke and eat on new furniture that we were trying to sell. I would suspect you'd encounter the same thing if you were around a Toyota plant long enough or anywhere else.
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Replying to: tedebear (Oct 07, 2007 1:22 pm) I don't know where you're getting your info at, but I have neighbors and friends working at plants here in Detroit and could name names, getting double and triple time. Guys getting in a 6am, driving a hilo for a few hours, then skipping out with sup's approval to got boating in the afternoon. Smoking inside an enclosed space like an SUV is wrong. I doubt very much Honda or Toyota would put up with that behaviour ONCE, as they're not protected by antiquated unions.
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Replying to: hansienna (Oct 07, 2007 1:19 pm) Chrysler is headquarted in the USA and T&C / GC are made in Fenton, Missouri, USA; and in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Toyota is headquartered in Japan but the Sienna is made in Indiana, USA. Honda is headquartered in Japan but the Odyssey is made in Alabama, USA after being made in Ontario, Canada for years. But where is the billions of dollars in profits going? Are they staying here and creating jobs for other Americans? Does it help strengthen our dollar and cut our balance of trade?
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