Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Dodge Caravan, Hyundai Entourage, Mazda MAZDA5, Kia Sedona, Car Comparisons, Car Buying, Van
#313 of 1261 Re: Catching up... [bobw3]
Sep 21, 2007 (4:46 am)
Or maybe Sienna owners aren't even willing to look at other vehicles? Maybe Caravan owners are smarter shoppers who like to look around and compare, while Sienna owners don't even consider anything else based on the other reviewers. I've heard many folks say that "I'd never buy a Dodge because they're unreliable." or "I'd never buy a Ford because they're junk" but then I've never heard anyone say "I'd never buy a Toyota because they're junk" True or not, it's the perception for many.
Well for a long time, vehicles like the Toyota did have a big advantage over American vehicles. But that advantage is pretty much gone. American vehicles are rated better than European in quality and dependability and I think close to par with Asian vehicles. Toyota has sliped badly in the last few years, although you would never know it by reading Consumers Report. They still can do no wrong in their eyes.
Toyota Recalls 533,000 Vehicles
DETROIT -- Toyota has launched a recall of 533,000 trucks and SUVs, including ... between Big Three-made product and Asian automakers, Toyota somehow manages ...brandweek.com/bw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003535184&... - 49k - Cached
Bring Em On In!...Again?: Toyota Recalls 220,000 Highlander and Rav4 ...
Toyota Motor Corp. said it would recall more than 200,000 ... big they always lose quality and I would say we can expect more recalls from Toyota. ...autospies.com/news/Bring-Em-On-In-Again-Toyota-Recalls-220-000-High... - 107k - Cached
Toyota Recalls Mounting - The Car Connection
Company expects big revenue increase this year. ... also is continuing its review of Toyota's recall of 775,000 Tundras and is also ...thecarconnection.com/.../Toyota_Recalls_Mounting.S175.A10753.html - 60k - Cached
In the United States, Toyota's largest market, the number of vehicles recalled soared to 2.2 million last year. That was double the number of vehicles recalled in 2004, and more than 10 times the 200,000 cars it recalled in 2003, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
#314 of 1261 Re: Town and Country Limited review [carcom2]
Sep 21, 2007 (7:43 am)
I'm sure that feature will be appreciated by those who tow, unfortunately the car mags rarely do. Even then, they have SUVs in their fleet and use those.
With a 3500lb trailer and, say, 350 lbs on the tongue, I'm sure you would appreciate that self-leveling feature.
#315 of 1261 Re: Catching up... [marine2]
Sep 21, 2007 (8:05 am)
I agree that two decades ago the difference was significant, i.e. several defects per vehicle better, but nowadays the differences amount to small fractions of problems per car.
I don't agree that recalls mean Toyota is "slipping badly", though, as they still have the lowest warranty costs per vehicle in the business.
Most importantly - none of those recalls affect the Sienna.
#316 of 1261 Sienna Recalls
Sep 21, 2007 (8:19 am)
Just checked, no recalls at all for any 2008 Siennas, which started production in July.
No recalls at all for any 2007 Siennas.
No recalls at all for any 2006 Siennas.
You have to go all the way back to model year 2005 to find one single recall, and it was for a rather minor issue of a trim bezel around a seat belt.
So much for them "slipping badly".
The opposite is true, in fact. The van came out in 2004, and they have ironed out all the teething issues.
That makes a new Sienna a very, very safe bet.
#317 of 1261 Re: Town and Country Limited review [ateixeira]
Sep 22, 2007 (7:51 am)
I just think it drives much better and I probably will not tow anything.
#318 of 1261 Checked out Car and Driver last night
Sep 22, 2007 (8:35 am)
They had a five van comparo between the Dodge Grand Caravan, Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, Nissan Quest, and Hyundai Entourage.
Any guesses as to how they finished?
They tried to equip these vans as close to $35k as possible, but the Nissan was around $39k, with the Toyota around $30k.
#319 of 1261 Re: Checked out Car and Driver last night [thegraduate]
Sep 22, 2007 (12:15 pm)
What year, model, engine, transmission, etc. of each?
Were they lazy like CR and just MSRP or did they know how to shop for the best actual price for each?
Since you posted the data, I would guess they liked the Odyssey the best.
#320 of 1261 Re: Checked out Car and Driver last night [hansienna]
Sep 22, 2007 (1:39 pm)
They used the top engine in the Dodge, the rest all have standard engines and transmissions (including the 3.5L 266 hp Sienna). The Odyssey was a 2007, not the revised 2008 model.
Given that the name of the magazine is "CAR and DRIVER" I'm not surprised they go with the most "carlike" of all the vans as their number one choice.
#321 of 1261 Re: Checked out Car and Driver last night [hansienna]
Sep 22, 2007 (1:56 pm)
Silly Silly Hans, you don't get it do you!
Don't play this game. You should know by now you can't win.
If you have a 4spd auto and Honda offers 5, your's is garbage, obsolete etc.. If your's has a 6 spd and Honda offers 5, your's is unproven garbage. If you don't offer all the airbags as others, your's is unsafe, but if you then offer more airbags, say knee airbags in addition to curtain etc.., so what. If you get $5000 off your minivan and someone pays dealer markup for a Honda, you can only use MSRP numbers to calculate resale value, not actual transaction prices. If your minivan doesn't get anywhere near EPA numbers, you just point to EPA numbers anyways. If your minivan is 1.4 secs slower to 60 mph - get off the road you're a hazard!! If your minivan is 1/10th sec faster, your engine will probably blow up at 20,000 miles, hence the need for better warranty. If your minivan offers innovative features, you probably don't need em to begin with, unless they later show up on foreign minivans, and then they'll be of much better design, quality and a necessity. Total recall numbers only matter, even if they're voluntary and minor, unless you have a foreign vehicle and are fixed via TSBs. You also can ignore the TSBs and tons of complaints online because others are more passionate then you are and have much higher expectations then you - so dismiss those numbers. If you had a single bad experience with a domestic product - never ever buy another, they're all crapola! And bash em every chance you can on Edmunds. Keep reliving the pain, oh, and you don't actually have to own em either, it could be an old family vehicle or story passed on from generation to generation!! Even Edsels are fair game!!
Don't try playing the numbers game
#322 of 1261 Re: Checked out Car and Driver last night [thegraduate]
Sep 22, 2007 (7:10 pm)
what, you can watch car and driver, they took it of our spike tv a year ago. how can i see the van comparro?