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2008 Minivans - READ ONLY

1261 messages,  Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Dodge Caravan, Hyundai Entourage, Mazda MAZDA5, Kia Sedona, Car Comparisons, Car Buying, Van

#1251 of 1261 Re: artgpo [marine2] by dennisctc Feb 26, 2008 (4:02 pm)
Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 3:41 pm) I'm still trying to find out what CR meant when they said the instrument panel on my Dodge GC was busy.What the heck does that mean? I thought it was pretty well laid out.   What they mean is, it's not like the japanese vehicles they're used to, therefore different and different is bad. Replies to this message: ateixeira (Feb 27, 2008 7:23 am)
#1252 of 1261 Re: POC Sienna and Odysseys [artgpo] by hansienna Feb 26, 2008 (4:56 pm)
Replying to: artgpo (Feb 26, 2008 5:45 am) Sorry to read your son owns a Sienna XLE? Will his front door welds break like they have been breaking in the 2004-2007 Siennas?   Will the transmission fail in your 2006 Odyssey like they have been failing in MANY Odysseys?
#1253 of 1261 Re: Brain power challenged CR reviewers [marine2] by hansienna Feb 26, 2008 (5:11 pm)
Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 3:41 pm) CR has a LOVE affair with Honda and Toyota. Their mustard seed size brains can't comprehend a vehicle with BETTER controls for HVAC, stereo, windshield/rear wipers and washers than the simpleton controls made by Hondota.   Chrysler vehicles had a separate control for Bass, Treble, Fade, and Balance while Toyonda has the less user friendly "one knob does everything" for the stereo which forces the owner to scroll thru everything to change the balance left/right.   My 02 T&C LX had a separate control for front wipers/washers and 3 controls for the rear wiper/washers while Hondota have all of these on one stalk located on the right of the steering wheel.   My 02 T&C LX had a POWER On/Off button for HVAC with a 5 speed fan while my 06 Sienna LE has only 4 speed fan with NO power on/off button....just for a few examples.   However, the Sienna does have ONE feature that is better than the Odyssey or GC/T&C: The transmission selector has P-R-N-D-4-3-2-L while the others don't have a position to hold the transmission from shifting above 1st gear ( and 4th gear in the Ody). I have not driven a Chrysler minivan with the 6 speed. Replies to this message: hause7 (Feb 26, 2008 6:04 pm)
#1254 of 1261 Re: artgpo [ateixeira] by hause7 Feb 26, 2008 (6:01 pm)
Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:35 am) Actually the Tundra 2WD rate above average while the 4WD rated well below average. They recommend the 2WD not the 4WD.
#1255 of 1261 Re: Brain power challenged CR reviewers [hansienna] by hause7 Feb 26, 2008 (6:04 pm)
Replying to: hansienna (Feb 26, 2008 5:11 pm) The door weld problem stopped in the 2008 model year, even though my 04 Limited AWD has 4 times the miles you have on your 06 with not one problem.   We had the radio controls in our T&C like you said, it made it look cheap to me and i like the one button does all idea.   I love the gated shifter on the Sienna, use it while driving through Mt. Shasta on I-5.
#1256 of 1261 Re: Glare from poorly designed Sienna instrument cluster and dash [hansienn by yatesjo Feb 26, 2008 (11:14 pm)
Replying to: marine2 (Feb 23, 2008 10:53 pm) I'd rather not have this sound like a rant, but I strenuously disagree with the assertion that we should buy cars from GM/Ford/Chrysler out of some patriotic duty to support American manufacturing. Neither by public subsidy, nor personal choice do I want to pay more than fair market price for a vehicle. To do otherwise is simply bad economics.   The automotive business is truly international in scope. Ford and GM both have substantial markets and manufacturing sourced internationally; Toyota, Honda, BMW, Daimler, Subaru, Nissan et al have parts and manufacturing sources as well as development and engineering within the US. A company's profits are accrued to the share holders and alongside Ford and GM you can trade Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Daimler etc on the NYSE; and if you invest in Asia/Pacific mutual or index funds, you own some of the Japanese/Korean companies and likewise European companies in those mutual and index funds.   A decision on which vehicle to buy should be made with the right goals in mind and those goals should purely relate to how the vehicle will be used, the costs entailed and the value returned. All nationalism does is muddy the water and lead people to choose a vehicle that costs too much or does not fit their needs. If American manufacturers can build competitive quality vehicles at competitive prices then they will survive in the marketplace. By subsidizing non-competitive industries all we do is make ourselves poorer while delaying the inevitable.   Unfortunately for Chrysler, one con that must be weighted into the purchase of their minivan is the possibility that Cerebrus decides to cut their losses and pull the plug. Of the big three, Chrysler is in the weakest position during a domestic economic slump having been divested in the 1970s of the brands that gave it any significant international presence. What is a lifetime warranty worth when the company no longer exists? The T&C and GC are nice vans, but are they enough nicer and enough less expensive to overcome these hurdles? That is one of the questions I am exploring.   A similar questioning should come when looking at any vehicle from the Big3. GM is in the strongest position, but they are all bleeding cash. Buying a Toyota, Honda or Nissan I would be confident that the manufacturer will be around to support the vehicle for a long time to come. Replies to this message: dennisctc (Feb 27, 2008 4:28 am) marine2 (Feb 27, 2008 6:36 am)
#1257 of 1261 Re: Glare from poorly designed Sienna instrument cluster and dash [hansienn by dennisctc Feb 27, 2008 (4:28 am)
Replying to: yatesjo (Feb 26, 2008 11:14 pm) Toyota, Honda, BMW, Daimler, Subaru, Nissan et al have parts and manufacturing sources as well as development and engineering within the US.   This is like comparing a fly to an elephant. The engineering and development presence of all these OEMs is TINY.....support engineering in the plant, some artistic design studios maybe in CA, and an "engineering" office here is detroit.   No one is saying to pay too much for a domestic minivan, or buy an inferior product. That's hardly the case when choosing a Chrysler minivan where you got new technologies/features, equal or better quality, better warranty and lower prices.   The T&C and GC are nice vans, but are they enough nicer and enough less expensive to overcome these hurdles? That is one of the questions I am exploring.   Without a question - YES. Having owned previous gens, and in the market later this year for a new one, and having driven it's competition...YES again. I believe even Honda realizes how good they are, as they started heavily discounting 07s and 08s Odys last fall.   GM is in the strongest position, but they are all bleeding cash. Buying a Toyota, Honda or Nissan I would be confident that the manufacturer will be around to support the vehicle for a long time to come.   You might want to cheer up some and not be so dire here...... GM is bleeding cash only because of accounting issues. They'll be around long after our bones are dust. Nissan was given up for dead years ago before Renault stepped in. Chrysler is taking the steps needed to grow the business and they have the cash. Once this economy picks up they'll be fine.
#1258 of 1261 Re: Glare from poorly designed Sienna instrument cluster and dash [hansienn by marine2 Feb 27, 2008 (6:36 am)
Replying to: yatesjo (Feb 26, 2008 11:14 pm) I'd rather not have this sound like a rant, but I strenuously disagree with the assertion that we should buy cars from GM/Ford/Chrysler out of some patriotic duty to support American manufacturing. Neither by public subsidy, nor personal choice do I want to pay more than fair market price for a vehicle. To do otherwise is simply bad economics.   No one is asking anyone to buy an American vehicle that is priced higher or inferior in quality.   Please go to Domestic/Foreign and read the posts I put up. There is where we should be discussing this anyway. Thanks.
#1259 of 1261 Re: artgpo [dennisctc] by ateixeira Feb 27, 2008 (7:10 am)
Replying to: dennisctc (Feb 26, 2008 1:52 pm) We may be splitting hairs, but I don't think it's a "shoot out"-style comparion if the CTS beats the BMW and Mercedes and they rank the Inifiniti G35 (not even tested in that issue) #1.   In a true comparo they would pick a winner from one of the cars tested.
#1260 of 1261 Ergonomics by ateixeira Feb 27, 2008 (7:23 am)
Replying to: dennisctc (Feb 26, 2008 4:02 pm) What they mean is, it's not like the japanese vehicles they're used to, therefore different and different is bad.   It's not just CR that gets "used to" an interior layout, it's everyone. Simple ergonomics make you feel right at home, right away. There's no having to get used to it. You inherently know where things are, it becomes 2nd instinct.   For the most part, Japanese makes have indeed copied each other, or at least standardized on a basic layout. The headlight switches are all in the same place, the wiper switches, the cruise (in most cases). Koreans hopped on this bandwagon. Even some domestic cars have caved.   Good Example: hop out of a Mazda, and into a Subaru, and all the controls are in the same place. Then go to a Honda, again, you're right at home. And to a Toyota, and so on. You don't have to go looking for wiper controls. This is good ergonomics.   Bad Example: you're in a Mercedes, and have to look for the light switch, which is on the dash instead of on a stalk. Then you get in a Porsche, and can't find the key hole, which is left of the steering wheel. Then you go drive a Saab, and the key goes in - the center console? And you can't get it out, until you realize the shifter has to be in Reverse. Then your 7 series Bimmer has a bizarre looking shift selector that takes a while to figure out. I haven't even brought up iDrive or any of those devices.   If you need a manual to figure something out, it's not intuitive. Bad ergonomics.   If you can get used to a certain layout, and move from car to car and feel at home instantly. Well, that's just good ergonomic design.   Notice I didn't criticize domestics - that's because I think the Europeans commit far more sins in that regard.

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