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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans Forum. Your Host is Karens
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:11 am) It's a global economy. GM is building V6 engines for the Equinox in China. GM-DAT (Daeweoo, basically) is building Aveos in Korea, the best seller in the segment BTW. Chrysler builds cars in Canada and Mexico, and they tote these as being "domestic". Gracias, amigo, for the jobs. Is the Grand Caravan really a domestic if it's built outside of the USA? They don't hesitate to paint PT Cruisers with american flags to help sell these "domestics". Ford builds the Fusion in Mexico. Did you know that the Camry is the only car represented in NASCAR racing that is built in the US? Ironic, no? Automakers have to be efficient to survice, so this is inevitable. They do and indeed should source the parts from the most efficient source. If they don't, someone else will and they will lose sales. Heck, you should head over to the Mistubishi Outlander threads. Those guys pitch the "Made in Japan" status of that model as a distinct advantage. I don't, but those folks do. Any how, we could argue forever, but it won't change a thing. What will bring customers back is good product. GM has hits with the Malibu, the Lambda crossovers, and most of the Caddillac lineup. CR gave all of them glowing reviews. Ford and Chrysler would be wise to follow that business model. GM, Ford and Chrysler have to build some vehicles in Canada and Mexico or they wouldn't be able to compete at all. The foreign makers come over here and build new plants with tax breaks given them by the state. They hire new employees that are not ready to retire, don't have five weeks vacation coming to them. They pay them a lower wage, get a break on medical because they are younger and don't have to pay medical to retirees. Can you even imagine the profit advantage they have on domestic makes right from the start? One reason they can usually offer more on their vehicles than American manufactures can. To say Chrysler, or Ford doesn't put anything back into the American economy because they are losing money is far from the truth. Where do you think all that money goes? It's in higher employees wages and pensions, which that employee spends on goods and services right here. It pays taxes for police and firemen. It pays taxes for schools, city, county and state workers. It goes for furniture, food and airplane tickets. Where do you think that money goes to pay that health care for both employees and retirees? To Americans. Where do you think that profit goes that the foreign makers make? That profit that they don't have to pay out in taxes, health care, vacations pensions, etc? Most of it goes right back to their country, to create jobs for them. Chrysler builds Dodge/Chrysler minivans in Canada. But they also build them in St. Louis. Mine was built in Canada, with a 83% N. American content. Engine and transmission built in the USA. With that big a content, most of that money stays here creating jobs for us, not Asians, or Europeans. There is a big profit advantage these foreign manufactures have on American manufactures that they can't over come. Because they are locked into those contracts with employees. They don't get big tax discounts on their factories. Maybe if some tried to see the problem, they would be more understanding.
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 5:45 am) I will respond to a couple of things you brought up. It's true that the south is giving tax breaks for new assembly plants, and the states are helping (Alabama, Mississippi), but the offer is available to everyone. I'm sure the Unions block that for the domestics. Also, remember that it was the Big 3 that demanded that the Japanese build cars in the US of A. Iacocca mentioned that a lot in his book. 83% N. American content The key here being North American, not just American or USA only, but USA, Canada, and Mexico. The problem I have with saying North American = Domestic is that it implies that a job created in Mexico is better than a job created in, say, Korea. Both are foreign countries. So it's 83% Mexico/USA/Canada. Let's see the break down. I want to know what % is USA only.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:27 am) Minivans - Domestic vs. Foreign
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Replying to: KarenS (Feb 26, 2008 11:22 am) 
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 11:00 am) But the thing I was trying to point out still applies. If they had to have all the plants in the US, they couldn't compete at all. There is just to much of an advantage to the foreign makers here, that the American makers don't have, in wages, pensions, vacations, health care, taxes, etc.
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 11:27 am) |
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Replying to: KarenS (Feb 26, 2008 11:22 am) Minivans - Domestic vs. Foreign Right on Karen, thats where this should be. I would like to take all the rest that deals with American and foreign there. |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:25 am) You let that myth (CR not reporting that issue) slide right by I never mentioned the "Door Weld" issue, and have skipped over all those postings previously. That's why it slipped by
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Replying to: dennisctc (Feb 26, 2008 8:41 am) 
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:35 am) Are you looking at only the pictures? Even the pics would show you they're making comparisons!! Every issue they test similar cars - WHY? because it's a comparison. At the beginning of every article, they list ALL cars in that segment and give them ratings...not a comparison? I'm glad CR knows which models and options buyers are likely to buy. So if someone is looking to tow a large trailer, they'd equip both the Toyota and GM with largest engines available and make a fair comparison, not the base engine in the GM and top of the line in the Toyota and declare Toyota the winner! I'm sure GM execs aren't sitting around, paying any attention to CR. |
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