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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans Forum. Your Host is Karens
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Replying to: dennisctc (Feb 26, 2008 10:19 am) You let that myth (CR not reporting that issue) slide right by. Maybe you do just look at the pretty pictures. 
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 10:09 am)
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Replying to: maryh3 (Feb 26, 2008 9:53 am) Keep in mind, though, that the quick Tundra with the bigger engine and the shorter axle ratio still got better mileage than the tall geared, small engined Silverado. You say the Tundra "won" but that's not how CR does it. They give individual ratings, and the Silverado scored well, so I wouldn't call it the loser. To answer this question why do they call it a comparison test? I don't think they do that. In fact they include older ratings from models they tested before, which aren't even present to be compared. Often times the highest rated model isn't even evaluated in that particular issue! So there is no winner, in those cases. The current issue covering sport sedans is an example. The CTS scores higher than BMW or Mercedes yet it's still not the winner for the class. The engine Consumer Reports selected for its test is the one that breaks camshafts, seemingly at random Correct, the glass camshafts I mentioned. As soon as CR had enough data, they rated the Tundra "Below Average" for reliability and removed their recommendation. They don't have a crystal ball, but when data became available they made the correction. That article would have you think they still recommend the Tundra to this day. They no longer do.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:11 am) It's a global economy. GM is building V6 engines for the Equinox in China. GM-DAT (Daeweoo, basically) is building Aveos in Korea, the best seller in the segment BTW. Chrysler builds cars in Canada and Mexico, and they tote these as being "domestic". Gracias, amigo, for the jobs. Is the Grand Caravan really a domestic if it's built outside of the USA? They don't hesitate to paint PT Cruisers with american flags to help sell these "domestics". Ford builds the Fusion in Mexico. Did you know that the Camry is the only car represented in NASCAR racing that is built in the US? Ironic, no? Automakers have to be efficient to survice, so this is inevitable. They do and indeed should source the parts from the most efficient source. If they don't, someone else will and they will lose sales. Heck, you should head over to the Mistubishi Outlander threads. Those guys pitch the "Made in Japan" status of that model as a distinct advantage. I don't, but those folks do. Any how, we could argue forever, but it won't change a thing. What will bring customers back is good product. GM has hits with the Malibu, the Lambda crossovers, and most of the Caddillac lineup. CR gave all of them glowing reviews. Ford and Chrysler would be wise to follow that business model. GM, Ford and Chrysler have to build some vehicles in Canada and Mexico or they wouldn't be able to compete at all. The foreign makers come over here and build new plants with tax breaks given them by the state. They hire new employees that are not ready to retire, don't have five weeks vacation coming to them. They pay them a lower wage, get a break on medical because they are younger and don't have to pay medical to retirees. Can you even imagine the profit advantage they have on domestic makes right from the start? One reason they can usually offer more on their vehicles than American manufactures can. To say Chrysler, or Ford doesn't put anything back into the American economy because they are losing money is far from the truth. Where do you think all that money goes? It's in higher employees wages and pensions, which that employee spends on goods and services right here. It pays taxes for police and firemen. It pays taxes for schools, city, county and state workers. It goes for furniture, food and airplane tickets. Where do you think that money goes to pay that health care for both employees and retirees? To Americans. Where do you think that profit goes that the foreign makers make? That profit that they don't have to pay out in taxes, health care, vacations pensions, etc? Most of it goes right back to their country, to create jobs for them. Chrysler builds Dodge/Chrysler minivans in Canada. But they also build them in St. Louis. Mine was built in Canada, with a 83% N. American content. Engine and transmission built in the USA. With that big a content, most of that money stays here creating jobs for us, not Asians, or Europeans. There is a big profit advantage these foreign manufactures have on American manufactures that they can't over come. Because they are locked into those contracts with employees. They don't get big tax discounts on their factories. Maybe if some tried to see the problem, they would be more understanding.
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 5:45 am) I will respond to a couple of things you brought up. It's true that the south is giving tax breaks for new assembly plants, and the states are helping (Alabama, Mississippi), but the offer is available to everyone. I'm sure the Unions block that for the domestics. Also, remember that it was the Big 3 that demanded that the Japanese build cars in the US of A. Iacocca mentioned that a lot in his book. 83% N. American content The key here being North American, not just American or USA only, but USA, Canada, and Mexico. The problem I have with saying North American = Domestic is that it implies that a job created in Mexico is better than a job created in, say, Korea. Both are foreign countries. So it's 83% Mexico/USA/Canada. Let's see the break down. I want to know what % is USA only.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 10:27 am) Minivans - Domestic vs. Foreign
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Replying to: KarenS (Feb 26, 2008 11:22 am) 
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 26, 2008 11:00 am) But the thing I was trying to point out still applies. If they had to have all the plants in the US, they couldn't compete at all. There is just to much of an advantage to the foreign makers here, that the American makers don't have, in wages, pensions, vacations, health care, taxes, etc.
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 26, 2008 11:27 am) |
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Replying to: KarenS (Feb 26, 2008 11:22 am) Minivans - Domestic vs. Foreign Right on Karen, thats where this should be. I would like to take all the rest that deals with American and foreign there. |
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