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2008 Minivans - READ ONLY

1261 messages,  Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 8:47 AM

You are in the Vans & Minivans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town and Country, Dodge Caravan, Hyundai Entourage, Mazda MAZDA5, Kia Sedona, Car Comparisons, Car Buying, Van

Messages Page 121 of 127

#1196 of 1261 Re: Glare from poorly designed Sienna instrument cluster and dash [bobber1] by marine2

Feb 25, 2008 (2:50 am)

Replying to: bobber1 (Feb 24, 2008 10:24 am)
I do believe American car makers are suffering from their past sins which were many. I think both management and labor must share the blame. Many back in the 1970's and 80's were poorly designed and built. I had bought a Pontiac. Phoenix new, that over heated on me on the way home from the dealers and I wound up having a pool of oil in the driveway the next morning. Had to have it towed back to the dealer. The springs were so weak in it, if two people sat in the back seat, the rear end would scrape the pavement going up a driveway. It was even missing a door handle in the back when I drove it off the lot. Didn't realize it until I got it home. But that was many years ago and I know they're putting out a lot better cars now.
 
When I bought my 2005, people on here said they wouldn't by a Dodge/Chrysler minivan because the inside was two plain. It only had a four speed tranny, was to slow, didn't have stability control, side air bags etc. Not much was complained about in the quality of it. Now Chrysler has a new minivan out that has all the stuff many complained about them not having, and loaded it with stuff none of the rest even offered and priced it cheaper, so now they go back to past quality that really hasn't been an issue on Chrysler minivans for years. The 2008 Chrysler vans are great vehicles. Built well and a ton of features on them. Don't buy them just because they are American. Buy them because they a good minivans and because your also helping your country by doing so. Thats the way I look at it.

#1197 of 1261 Re: artgpo [ateixeira] by marine2

Feb 25, 2008 (8:01 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 25, 2008 7:38 am)
Toyota issued a press release to the Associated Press about that issue.
  
I don't see how you think they're trying to keep this a big secret. Every automotive press outlet in the world covered that story.
 
I'd like to know who carried the press release then. I get Consumers Report, Automobile and Motor Trend magazines and saw nothing in any of them. I also get the newspaper and saw nothing in that on their massive recalls, hidden recalls or even the Japanese government thinking of suing them. So who carried it? I didn't see it on television news either. I am sure there are many on here that were as surprised as I was to hear the news about Toyota's quality problems.

#1198 of 1261 Re: artgpo [marine2] by ateixeira

Feb 25, 2008 (8:36 am)

Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 8:01 am)
A quick Google finds coverage from:
 
Journal Sentinal
Cars.com
Consumer Reports
AutoBlog
AOL Videos
YouTube
 
And that's just the first page.
 
The press loves covering a story like this.
 
This is how it should work - the problem appears, people discuss it on-line, create a buzz. That puts pressure on the manufacturer to address the issue, and they do.

#1199 of 1261 Re: artgpo [ateixeira] by marine2

Feb 25, 2008 (9:33 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 25, 2008 8:36 am)
Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 7:01 am)
 
A quick Google finds coverage from:
  
Journal Sentinal
Cars.com
Consumer Reports
AutoBlog
AOL Videos
YouTube
  
And that's just the first page.
  
The press loves covering a story like this.
  
This is how it should work - the problem appears, people discuss it on-line, create a buzz. That puts pressure on the manufacturer to address the issue, and they do.
 
Does it say what issue in Consummers Report has it in? Most of those you mentioned, most people would never see or read. Now if you had said NY Times, Arizona Republic, Edmonds, Motor Trend, LA. Times, CBS, NBC, I could understand it. They sure wouldn't have a problem with that kind of news on those sources if they were American.

#1200 of 1261 Re: artgpo [marine2] by ateixeira

Feb 25, 2008 (9:39 am)

Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 9:33 am)
Not specifically, and it may have been on-line, I'm not sure.
 
Click & Clack spoke about the issue on the air, too. It was pretty funny, as usual.
 
Detroit Free Press covered it (naturally).
 
Edmunds may have blogged it.
 
I guess it was big news for those that wanted it to be big news.
 
I dunno, it's just a spot weld. Doesn't seem like that big a deal, or that costly to repair, for that matter.
 
Click & Clack had quite a bit of fun with it.

#1201 of 1261 Re: What do people want in a minivan? [dennisctc] by hansienna

Feb 25, 2008 (4:50 am)

Replying to: dennisctc (Feb 24, 2008 4:15 am)
Excellent analysis. Most people want the lowest purchase price with decent reliability. Chrysler sells the MOST minivans because Chrysler offers an excellent product with the most content for the lowest price. Most people do not drag race their minivan.

#1202 of 1261 Re: artgpo [ateixeira] by marine2

Feb 25, 2008 (9:53 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 25, 2008 9:39 am)
I guess it was big news for those that wanted it to be big news.
  
I dunno, it's just a spot weld. Doesn't seem like that big a deal, or that costly to repair, for that matter.
 
 
I'm not talking about just a spot weld on the Toyota minivan. I'm talking about the massive recalls that Toyota is having on many of their models.
 
Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you’d almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies - or quality declines of foreign companies - by listening to the media. Did you hear about it when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced that Toyota recalled more vehicles than it sold in the U.S. last year? Probably not. Did you hear about Toyota making an "elaborate apology" for their "worrisome series of recalls" that has "tarnished its reputation for quality?" Probably not. Did you hear about the Toyota senior manager quote that stated "We used to do quiet recalls called ‘service campaigns’ to deal with defects but we’re not going to hide anything anymore?" Such a statement suggests Toyota’s past recall numbers were probably much higher than we were led to believe, and they profited handsomely by having a perception of higher quality than they deserved. In Japan, prosecutors are looking into possible negligence on the part of Toyota for shirking recalls for the last eight years. How ironic. You probably didn’t hear about that one either because the American media doesn’t like to bash foreign auto companies - only American ones.
 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts

#1203 of 1261 Re: artgpo [marine2] by ateixeira

Feb 25, 2008 (10:02 am)

Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 9:53 am)
I was trying to keep this discussion in the context of minivans. The only issue that affected the Sienna was the door weld issue.
 
The problems with the new 6 speed automatic are pretty well documented, in fact IIRC CR made that front page news. Same with the Tundra's glass camshafts.
 
There is no doubt Toyota has had major growing pains. You can't do that kind of volume, especially with rapid growth, and maintain the level of quality control you had before, when you were smaller.
 
I don't dispute that at all.
 
In fact, an Edmunds member works for a supplier to SIA and surprised me when he said the quality inspectoins for Subaru and more stringent than the ones for the Camry at the same plant.
 
Should we be surprised that Subaru passed Toyota in CR surveys? Toyota dropped from 1st to 5th place.
 
In the context of the Sienna, though, it's still the most reliable van out there, whether you believe Consumer Reports or TrueDelta. They are using a proven engine and transmission, and one small defective spot weld doesn't change that a bit.
 
Also, let's keep in mind Simmermaker is a Union member and runs www.howtobuyamerican.com, not exactly an unbiased reporter.

#1204 of 1261 Re: artgpo [marine2] by marine2

Feb 25, 2008 (10:02 am)

Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 9:53 am)
It's stuff like this that ticks me off.
 
But what has happened since gas prices have been on the decline in recent months? The Wall Street Journal reported a "slight" increase in truck sales by American companies, as Ford Expedition sales were up 41% and Lincoln Navigator sales were up 44%. The American media even tries to restrain its applause for home-based auto companies by referring to gains of over 40% as "slight!"

 
And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don’t know or don’t want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent over $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas. And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn’t tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3%, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78% and 74% respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.
 
Fortunately for our benefit, the U.S. remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers - according to the Level Field Institute - invest $16 billion in R&D (Research & Development) annually, which outpaces any other industry one could name. Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM’s combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who’s counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.
 
Japanese companies do employ 3,600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers. 3,600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65,000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are - you guessed it - Ford and General Motors. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft
 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts

#1205 of 1261 Re: artgpo [marine2] by ateixeira

Feb 25, 2008 (10:05 am)

Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 10:02 am)
He's spinning the numbers.
 
WSJ said truck sales - that includes pickups, a much bigger percentage of the total pie.
 
Simmermaker single out a couple of low volume luxury SUVs, a drop in the bucket when it comes to the big picture of pickup truck sales.

Messages Page 121 of 127

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