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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans Forum. Your Host is Karens
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Replying to: yatesjo (Feb 23, 2008 4:16 pm) He is, and give up, there's no convincing him, I've tried. I even showed photos in this very thread, earlier. I'm not disputing the fact that the gauges bother him, only that noone else complains. I have had the same gauges for a year now and love the blue hue and soft, pleasant glow. The only better gauges in Minivan-dom are the Hyundai Entourage's Lexus-like gauges (on the Limited model only). I respect hansienna's opinions but I think he believes that his opinion is fact, and that everyone agrees with him. That's just not the case. Per surveys 79% of Sienna owners are happy, and he falls in that 21% minority. For his old, beloved T&C van the number of satisifed owners was just 49%. So his opinion is in the MINORITY. His input is useful in these threads but I wish he was more accepting of the opinions of others, especially when the majority disagrees with him.
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Replying to: bobber1 (Feb 24, 2008 9:24 am) When I bought my 2005, people on here said they wouldn't by a Dodge/Chrysler minivan because the inside was two plain. It only had a four speed tranny, was to slow, didn't have stability control, side air bags etc. Not much was complained about in the quality of it. Now Chrysler has a new minivan out that has all the stuff many complained about them not having, and loaded it with stuff none of the rest even offered and priced it cheaper, so now they go back to past quality that really hasn't been an issue on Chrysler minivans for years. The 2008 Chrysler vans are great vehicles. Built well and a ton of features on them. Don't buy them just because they are American. Buy them because they a good minivans and because your also helping your country by doing so. Thats the way I look at it. |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 25, 2008 6:38 am) I don't see how you think they're trying to keep this a big secret. Every automotive press outlet in the world covered that story. I'd like to know who carried the press release then. I get Consumers Report, Automobile and Motor Trend magazines and saw nothing in any of them. I also get the newspaper and saw nothing in that on their massive recalls, hidden recalls or even the Japanese government thinking of suing them. So who carried it? I didn't see it on television news either. I am sure there are many on here that were as surprised as I was to hear the news about Toyota's quality problems.
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 7:01 am) Journal Sentinal Cars.com Consumer Reports AutoBlog AOL Videos YouTube And that's just the first page. The press loves covering a story like this. This is how it should work - the problem appears, people discuss it on-line, create a buzz. That puts pressure on the manufacturer to address the issue, and they do.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 25, 2008 7:36 am) A quick Google finds coverage from: Journal Sentinal Cars.com Consumer Reports AutoBlog AOL Videos YouTube And that's just the first page. The press loves covering a story like this. This is how it should work - the problem appears, people discuss it on-line, create a buzz. That puts pressure on the manufacturer to address the issue, and they do. Does it say what issue in Consummers Report has it in? Most of those you mentioned, most people would never see or read. Now if you had said NY Times, Arizona Republic, Edmonds, Motor Trend, LA. Times, CBS, NBC, I could understand it. They sure wouldn't have a problem with that kind of news on those sources if they were American. |
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 8:33 am) Click & Clack spoke about the issue on the air, too. It was pretty funny, as usual. Detroit Free Press covered it (naturally). Edmunds may have blogged it. I guess it was big news for those that wanted it to be big news. I dunno, it's just a spot weld. Doesn't seem like that big a deal, or that costly to repair, for that matter. Click & Clack had quite a bit of fun with it.
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Replying to: dennisctc (Feb 24, 2008 3:15 am) 
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 25, 2008 8:39 am) I dunno, it's just a spot weld. Doesn't seem like that big a deal, or that costly to repair, for that matter. I'm not talking about just a spot weld on the Toyota minivan. I'm talking about the massive recalls that Toyota is having on many of their models. Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you’d almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies - or quality declines of foreign companies - by listening to the media. Did you hear about it when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced that Toyota recalled more vehicles than it sold in the U.S. last year? Probably not. Did you hear about Toyota making an "elaborate apology" for their "worrisome series of recalls" that has "tarnished its reputation for quality?" Probably not. Did you hear about the Toyota senior manager quote that stated "We used to do quiet recalls called ‘service campaigns’ to deal with defects but we’re not going to hide anything anymore?" Such a statement suggests Toyota’s past recall numbers were probably much higher than we were led to believe, and they profited handsomely by having a perception of higher quality than they deserved. In Japan, prosecutors are looking into possible negligence on the part of Toyota for shirking recalls for the last eight years. How ironic. You probably didn’t hear about that one either because the American media doesn’t like to bash foreign auto companies - only American ones. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 8:53 am) The problems with the new 6 speed automatic are pretty well documented, in fact IIRC CR made that front page news. Same with the Tundra's glass camshafts. There is no doubt Toyota has had major growing pains. You can't do that kind of volume, especially with rapid growth, and maintain the level of quality control you had before, when you were smaller. I don't dispute that at all. In fact, an Edmunds member works for a supplier to SIA and surprised me when he said the quality inspectoins for Subaru and more stringent than the ones for the Camry at the same plant. Should we be surprised that Subaru passed Toyota in CR surveys? Toyota dropped from 1st to 5th place. In the context of the Sienna, though, it's still the most reliable van out there, whether you believe Consumer Reports or TrueDelta. They are using a proven engine and transmission, and one small defective spot weld doesn't change that a bit. Also, let's keep in mind Simmermaker is a Union member and runs www.howtobuyamerican.com, not exactly an unbiased reporter. |
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 25, 2008 8:53 am) But what has happened since gas prices have been on the decline in recent months? The Wall Street Journal reported a "slight" increase in truck sales by American companies, as Ford Expedition sales were up 41% and Lincoln Navigator sales were up 44%. The American media even tries to restrain its applause for home-based auto companies by referring to gains of over 40% as "slight!" And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don’t know or don’t want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent over $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas. And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn’t tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3%, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78% and 74% respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate. Fortunately for our benefit, the U.S. remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers - according to the Level Field Institute - invest $16 billion in R&D (Research & Development) annually, which outpaces any other industry one could name. Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM’s combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who’s counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media. Japanese companies do employ 3,600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers. 3,600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65,000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are - you guessed it - Ford and General Motors. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts |
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