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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
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Replying to: hansienna (Feb 23, 2008 3:57 pm)
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Replying to: yatesjo (Feb 23, 2008 4:16 pm)  Many design defects are not noticed until after a vehicle has been driven for a few weeks or months. I did NOT notice the glare from the poorly designed Sienna instrument cluster because the Sienna CE we test drove had a different cluster and I had not driven a Sienna LE (XLE or Limited) that has the Optitron gauges. All NEW Siennas were kept inside the Toyota dealership warehouse. 
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Replying to: hansienna (Feb 23, 2008 4:23 pm) As you say, somethings go unnoticed until you've lived with the vehicle for a while. Having read your comments I looked for the problem and couldn't see it so why do you so deeply fault Edmunds, CR and others for not noting a issue that reveals itself under very narrow conditions? I'm coming at this as objectively as possible. An engineer by training, vocation and nature, I research obsessively, weigh all the data I can lay my hands on and do cost/benefit analysis prior to making a purchase. Over the last few weeks I actually took the time to read all 1183 comments on this discussion (not to mention other discussions) so to better know what to look for. There are a lot of very passionate opinions on this forum, particularly from the Mopar people. The problem is passion often overrides civility, objectivity and reason.
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Replying to: yatesjo (Feb 23, 2008 5:51 pm) Sadly, a brief test drive of any vehicle is insufficient to learn advantages/disadvantages of any vehicle. It takes at least a month of ownership and a long trip to become well acquainted with a vehicle. Sienna plusses: The most cargo space behind 3rd row, attractive front door panels with padded armrests that open up to provide a very convenient place for my wife to put sunglasses, cough drops, etc. The 2007-08 Siennas have the most powerful engine with the best EPA fuel economy ratings. Odyssey plusses: Best handling minivan with the most comfortable seating/legroom for 7 people with a removeable, comfortable seat for an 8th person. Best designed dash and instrument cluster to prevent glare. Grand Caravan/T&C plusses: Quietest, least expensive minivan that has the luxury car feature of separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger and the only minivan with 2nd row seats that fold flat into the floor. |
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Overall for 19,575 miles is now 23.7 MPG. Mileage at last refill was 14.2 MPG which is considerably better than the 10.9 MPG on previous refill. (Overall fuel economy in 2002 T&C LX was 22.3 MPG). My sister gets MUCH lower gas mileage in her 2001 Odyssey EX than I got with T&C. At first refill at 322 miles the mileage was 26.7 MPG. Gas mileage for the first 1371 miles was 27.2 MPG. On first long, round trip the mileage was 29.1 MPG. It dropped to 27.8 MPG on 2nd long, round trip. For successive round trips to the same place the Sienna delivered 29.2 MPG, 28.2 MPG, 28.0 MPG, and 28.6 MPG. By comparison, my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L got 25.0 MPG, 25.9 MPG, 25.1 MPG, 27.7 MPG, 25.8 MPG, 25.9 MPG, 25.7 MPG, 25.6 MPG, 29.1 MPG, 26.2 MPG on 10 of the same long, round trips. Wind and temperature conditions had a considerable effect on fuel economy for both the Sienna and T&C.
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Replying to: hansienna (Feb 23, 2008 4:23 pm) You have to have owned a certain type of vehicle before having a problem with the next? That's what you imply here, that the other Sienna owners don't report problems because they didn't have a Chrysler van before the Toyota. I did NOT notice the glare from the poorly designed Sienna instrument cluster because the Sienna CE we test drove had a different cluster and I had not driven a Sienna LE (XLE or Limited) that has the Optitron gauges. All NEW Siennas were kept inside the Toyota dealership warehouse. Wait a sec, you didn't test-drive the van you were laying out $25k+ for?
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Replying to: thegraduate (Feb 23, 2008 10:02 pm)  Remind EVERYONE to avoid my BIG $ 29,280.88 mistake. 
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Replying to: thegraduate (Feb 23, 2008 10:02 pm) I did not notice the smaller amount of cargo space behind 3rd row of 2002 T&C LX when I owned it that I would notice now that I have owned the Sienna with more than twice as much. I did not realize how nice the 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row seat was before I got the Sienna. Each minivan has some advantages while also having some disadvantages. The Odyssey has THE MOST comfortable seating for 7 people BUT the Odyssey front door armrests are NOT as comfortable as those of the Sienna and also do not have the nice storage under the hinged, PADDED arm rests. The Odyssey also does NOT have the overhead console with compass / outside temperature and trip computer BUT the Odyssey EX has separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger that is NOT even optional on the Sienna LE.
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Replying to: yatesjo (Feb 23, 2008 5:51 pm) I guess that comes from a lot of put down over the years and having auto magazines not really giving Chrysler products the credit they deserve. While they did have some problems back in the 1990's, most have been cleared up in 2,000. But there are still some on this board that knock them hard, even though they never owned one, or haven't owned one for years. Much like some say they will never buy another American vehicle, even though the quality is way up. Even better than European cars. Now that we see that Toyota is no longer what they use to be, I would say they are about as good as the Asian vehicles. But it will take years I'm afraid before many find that out. Hopefully the American auto industry is still around when it happens. I think the American auto industry is vital to our economy and I really get upset when I hear Americans say they will never try an American vehicle again. I have a 2005 Dodge GC and a 2004 Honda Civic. Both have been excellent vehicles and we haven't had any problems with either. But next year, I plan on trading the Honda in on a Ford Focus. It's also been rated a very good car and I want to support American if I can get a good reliable car from them. My only gripe of the Honda, is the harsh ride over bumps and expansion strips on the road. We didn't feel them nearly as much when we test drove the new Focus. I think Chrysler has come out with a great minivan for 2008. They have put on it everything most people have complained about them not having and then added even more. Then cut the price to make even more affordable. I'm sure that's hard for Chrysler to do with the cost advantage the Asians have over Chrysler and the other American auto makers. From the experience I have had in 38 months of owning my van and the experience my brother has had with both of his vans and my sister's minivan, I think a person can't go wrong buying a new Chrysler van. You'll not only get a great minivan for a good price, but you'll be helping out your country too. Thats a great combination.
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Replying to: marine2 (Feb 23, 2008 10:53 pm) Chrysler needs to offer the biggest engine on ALL minivans without making the consumer buy a top of the line GC SXT or T&C Limited just to get power comparable to the Sienna or Odyssey. Chrysler needs to STOP having cheap, hard, ugly plastic door panels. Put soft padded vinyl and cloth on the door panels with nice carpet at the bottom. How much would it cost to have attractive door panels instead of cheap, hard, ugly plastic?
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