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Vans & Minivans 2008 Minivans 
1261 messages, Last post on Feb 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans Forum. Your Host is Karens
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Replying to: bobw3 (Feb 22, 2008 9:33 am) "Statistics are like a bikini -- what they reveal is suggestive; what they conceal is vital" -- Aaron Levenstein "Use your brain" -- Carcom2 You are assuming that the wearing of a seat belt IS safer than not. Why is that? Have you seen the study? Do you know how many people actually are killed because they are tangled in a seat belt? IF I did know of somebody this happened to, I definitely would look into the stats, quality of the study, sample size, and do a lot of investigating on my own. However, I only know 3 people who were killed in accidents -- all 3 were driving SUV's, rolled them, were not wearing seat belts, so they were thrown from their cars and killed. I do not of anyone killed because they were caught in a seat belt. Certainly it is possible but my observation and experience tells me seat belts are safer than not in case of accidents. Or you need routine surgery to save your life, but there's a small chance that you could die under the anesthetic, but the studies and research say it's unlikely. However your cousin died uner anesthetic for a minor surgery, so based on this personal experience you'll never go into anesthetic. I'd consider the alternatives and research the stats. Can I do without the breast implants? Can I do without the removal of the tumor? Are there non-invasive procedures available? How does the longevity associated with the procedures compare? I'd consider the possible motivations others have for suggesting my surgery. Physicians make more money doing a By-Pass than angioplasty. Does the physician own stock in a drug or stent company? Does my insurance company prefer angioplasty because it is done out-patient and cheaper than a few days stay at a hospital necessary for a By-Pass. I'd rely on my experience and remember that what "they" say today often differs from "they" say tomorrow. Years ago By-Pass surgery was considered great even though there has never been any study which showed that it extended a patients life http://www.antiaginglifeextension.com/ghsplus/bypasssurgery.asp Angioplasty then became the cat's meow. But over time they changed and said that arteries opened with angioplasty tended to occlude faster than those which were by-passed. Then stents became the cat's meow. Now they are saying they aren't that great, don't last, and some have been pulled by the FDA. Conclusion -- nobody knows the future and knows a product until years down the road and lots of data is available. Whether I got surgery or not would definitely be based upon talking to people I know and trust. Researching. Asking around. Looking at the studies, conclusions and rebuttals associated with them. And most importantly - I'd use my brain using studies, experience, data, personal observations etc. to form my own conclusion. I have a bosch front loading washer that will make your whites so white you'll think they're brand new and that's without using bleach! I think I'll conduct my own survey here. Admittedly I have a Maytag, and all my other friends complaining have Whirlpools and Kenmore (made my Whirlpool). When I bought a few years ago Bosch was having problems with the spin cycle vibrating and walking on the floor. "They" were recommending that they only be used if you had a basement floor and solid foundation for them to sit upon. I have a main floor laundry so I passed. Your claims, though interesting, will be considered, but I will more likely survey people I know who own one. I know them and can judge if their observations are honest, knowledgable, biased etc. Some people can't admit to making a mistake. Some have no basis for comparison. Some like anything and don't have messy kids who stain clothes. That said, if I buy another I'll certainly look into a Bosch hoping it cleans better than mine and better than a top loader. But I certainly would ask owners I respect and put more faith in them than CR next time. To get on the car topic...there's more to having a quality car than not having something break down after 150,000 miles. Different strokes for different folks. What you like may not be what I like. If I were CR making a review I'd say "If you want a tight steering vehicle - Buy an Odyssey If you like a smooth, quiet, cushy riding vehicle -- Buy a Chrysler. If you want a powerful, quick engine buy a Sienna. I can't recommend somebody to have my tastes. We won't know reliability for a few years. Come to us in a few years to see what you should have bought." |
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Replying to: bobw3 (Feb 22, 2008 9:33 am) Actually I'd probably die because I was still collecting data, doing research, watching studies, making observations etc. Making good judgments sometimes takes too much time and we pay the price for being too careful!! |
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http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=71840da3-223f-4621-9593-6- - 01b8a2bde33&k=54159
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For those of you that think the Chrysler Town & Country has a cheap looking inside but like most of the other things about it, have you seen the pics of the VW Routan based on the T&C? - seems like they've softened up the plasic, used padding on the door armrests, changed the dash, gave the suspension a "European feel", kept the storage in the floor in the second row, offer the power 3rd row seat, changed the front and rear ends, offer the dual DVD's w/ satelite TV, my gig. No Stow 'N Go or Swivel 'N Go available. Otherwise, many shared components from Chrysler. They're both made side by side in the same factory. I think the overall appearance "enhancements" is worth checking out. PRESS RELEASE VOLKSWAGEN UNVEILS ROUTAN AT CHICAGO AUTO SHOW European inspired design and driving dynamics highlight new minivan CHICAGO – Volkswagen of America today unveiled the Routan, an all new seven-passenger minivan. It delivers the best of both worlds: a vehicle that combines European sensibilities in design, fit and finish, and handling characteristics with market relevant features and outstanding value. The Routan is instantly recognizable as a member of the Volkswagen family, with its stylized front grille and exterior treatments. The interior enhancements create an environment that is visually pleasing, modern, and meticulously detailed. The high quality materials, beautiful textures and rich luxurious colors are combined with exacting tolerances and superb fit and finish. While pleasing and contemporary, the interior also follows the traditional Volkswagen design philosophy that form follows function. Second row captain's chairs offer an increased level of luxury and comfort while still providing the convenience of a traditional minivan, with over 32.7 cubic feet available behind the third row seats and a full 83 cubic feet is available behind the second row. The Routan will come standard with a 3.8L V6, offering 197 hp and 230 lb. ft. of torque when combined with the standard six-speed automatic transmission. A 4.0L V6 will be available rated at 251 hp and 259 lb. ft. of torque. Routan features European tuned suspension and steering optimized for handling and improved driving dynamics. Standard all-season traction control and ESP, brings safety and security to the Routan. The Routan comes with a host of unique features, including: • Conversation Mirror • Rear seat entertainment system with two 9 inch screens for second and third row, wireless headsets, and remote control • Dual power sliding doors with power windows • Touch screen navigation with twenty meg hard drive • Power lift gate with flood lamp • Thirteen cup holders Volkswagen delivers a competitively priced entry into this high volume segment with prices starting below $25,000. The Routan will be built in an already existing facility in Windsor, Ontario. With Routan, Volkswagen dealers add a vehicle that will provide additional, incremental growth in the market. A distinctly designed minivan at an attractive price point will broaden the brand portfolio, while providing a roomy alternative to existing Volkswagen owners.
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Here are some pics: http://www.vwroutanminivan.com/routan/ The black one does show chrome mirrors & handles. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=6436 |
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Egads, what were they thinking when they designed the exterior of the new generation minivan. It has the looks and appearances of a Borg spaceship... like a giant cube. The previous generation was much more attractive and sporty looking.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 22, 2008 8:32 am) Neither CR or Edmunds has identified the excessive glare caused by the poorly designed instrument cluster and dash center stack of the current Sienna LE, XLE, and Limited. 
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Replying to: jipster (Feb 22, 2008 12:52 pm) I think the Volkswagen interior is MORE attractive than either the Chrysler T&C or Dodge GC. (I do NOT like the fake wood of the T&C and the instrument cluster of the GC). However, I think the 2008 GC is the MOST attractive of the 3 since I do NOT like the tail lights of the VW Routan or the Grille of the T&C as well as those of the GC. I would like to see the 2nd and 3rd row seats in the VW Routan since I am not a fan of either Swivel 'N Go or Stow 'N Go and preferred the 2nd row Quads and 50/50 split Fold and Tumble of my 2002 T&C LX.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 22, 2008 1:40 pm) First of all, they sent a letter to all affected owners. That's not silent, nor is it hidden. Every owner was notified. hansienns can confirm that - he even got one of those letters. Nothing hidden or silent about it. Even if they sent a letter, they are still trying to hide the recalls from the general public, by not going public with it like the others do. I 'm sure most Americans don't have any idea that Toyota is having the problems they are having now. Most still believe Toyotas don't have the kind of quality problems American cars have had. I know I was shocked reading about it. After you know, you can find several articles of it on the Internet. But it sure hasn't made headlines in the papers or on television as have American products when defects and recalls come out about them. They are trying to protect an image they no longer deserve.
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Replying to: carcom2 (Feb 22, 2008 11:05 am) |
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