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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18220 messages,  Last post on May 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM

You are in the Kia Optima Forum.

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1745 of 1823

#17433 of 18220 In the Market by tundradweller1

Feb 01, 2013 (11:51 am)

Have been shopping and test driving a few mid-sizer's:
The 2014 Mazda 6 sport was a hoot to drive, the four almost has the torque of a V-6. Rather noisy on the highway (it was windy) and the sight lines are not great, small mirrors too.Still felt more like a sports car than a sedan, though you do feel every road irregularity.
The 2013 Accord LX 4 cyl. - still looks like a grocery getter compared to most others.
decent motor, handling was surprisingly sporty, CVT a little weird though much better than the Nissan Altima which I will avoid due to CVT issues and power steering whine with no dealer fixes.
Ford Fusion, after all the issues with the first gen fusion transmissions and no fixes I'll pass. Recent recalls cropping up too.
The wife has a 2011 Sonata 2.0 T - back to the dealership numerous times for front end pull (common) they FINALLY replaced both struts. Paint chipping off, partial re-painting etc. etc. Avoiding KIA/ Hyundai for now.
Chevy, not even a consideration.
The Passat, dated, under powered and worst MPG. High long term costs.
The trend for car makers is to cram all the gee wiz gadgets into the vehicle. Trouble is what good is it if the drive train and peripherals are junk? I don't get it. Maybe I'm not a marketing guy, I just want them to work...for 200,000 miles.

#17434 of 18220 Re: In the Market [tundradweller1] by aviboy97

Feb 01, 2013 (8:30 pm)

Replying to: tundradweller1 (Feb 01, 2013 11:51 am)
The trend for car makers is to cram all the gee wiz gadgets into the vehicle. Trouble is what good is it if the drive train and peripherals are junk? I don't get it. Maybe I'm not a marketing guy, I just want them to work...for 200,000 miles.
 
Sounds like the Toyota Camry is right up your alley.

#17435 of 18220 Jan. midsize sales by benjaminh

Feb 02, 2013 (6:17 am)

Thanks to TSX at www.vtec.net for these numbers:
Camry 31,897 +8.2%
Accord 23,924 +68.1%; PHEV 2
Fusion 22,399 +64.5%
Altima 21,464 -4%
Malibu 15,823 +7.8%
Sonata 13,247
Optima 11,252
Avenger 9,628 +69%
Passat 8,856 +40.2%
200 8,846 +26%
 
The Camry continue to dominate, which is a slight surprise given that Camry was just rated Poor in the IIHS crash test:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPAhoeU6UQ
 
But, the Camry offers a lot of bang for the buck, low financing, and the Toyota name. Also it seems like the other auto makers have been too nice to make an ad out of that video.

#17436 of 18220 Re: Jan. midsize sales [benjaminh] by romil01

Feb 02, 2013 (6:21 am)

Replying to: benjaminh (Feb 02, 2013 6:17 am)
The Camry continue to dominate, which is a slight surprise given that Camry was just rated Poor in the IIHS crash test:
 
The average consumer is incredibly ignorant and probably has no clue that the Camry performed poorly in this test. I think most Camry purchasers must blindly buy that car without any comparison testing. I don't think too many people in their right mind would actually choose a Camry over some of the newer offerings from competitors.

#17437 of 18220 midsize sales by benjaminh

Feb 02, 2013 (6:26 am)

Huge surge by Fusion in January. Honda may have to start protecting Accord's number 2 spot soon. So far Honda hasn't offered any financing on the 2013 Accord, but maybe that will change soon. The Altima is selling well, but seems to be faltering a little given that it's an all-new design. Passat is selling well too, but I think the VW factory in TN can make c. 12,000 Passats a month, and so they aren't selling them quite as fast as they're making them.

#17438 of 18220 Re: In the Market [tundradweller1] by benjaminh

Feb 02, 2013 (7:12 am)

Replying to: tundradweller1 (Feb 01, 2013 11:51 am)
tundradweller:
 
Thanks for your observations. Can you clarify a little what you mean about that the "sight lines are not great" on the Mazda6? I thought visibility would be pretty good in that car.
 
Several midsize cars have poor rear visibility, including, I think, Fusion, Optima, Sonata, Passat, Malibu, and Altima.
 
The best visibility is found in the Accord, and that's one of the hallmarks of Honda's designs: Form follows function. Some people say it's not exciting enough, but it works better than some competing designs for providing rear headroom and good visibility. You also can roll down your rear windows on an Accord almost all the way. Try that on the others. Can't do that on any of these others, I don't think, except the Camry and Mazda6.
 
My guess is that all of these cars will have very long lasting engines and transmissions. Probably all of them are designed to make it to 200k as long as all maintenance is done as scheduled and they are not used roughly. Will they all make it to 200k? Hard to say. Hyundai, Kia, and Honda now have direct injected engines, and I don't think many have yet gone more than 100k to test whether long term they have issues. In durability tests Ford's turbo DI engines seem to do very well. Ford engineers have strengthened several parts to make these engines pretty tough, and I'm sure all the others have too. Honda's CVT is new, but they've been building these for a while, and have apparently done a lot of engineering to design in long term durability. But with any new design there can be question marks. Anyway, I think we are all probably fairly safe for durability of engines and transmissions with all of these.
 
I'm sure you've thought of this already, but if you want fewer gadgets buy a base model—you'll save money now, and potentially trouble in the years ahead.
 
Even the base models of all of these cars are pretty lavishly equipped compared to midsize cars of 10 years ago.
 
Hope you'll let us know what you pick!

#17439 of 18220 In the Market by tundradweller1

Feb 02, 2013 (7:27 am)

Granted the Mazda 6 has a smaller blind spot then the Sonata and yes the Accord so far has the best visibility. Chalk it up to the higher waist line, swooping roof designs of late.
Considering I'm driving a 2004 Taurus SE that's approaching 200,000 miles, maybe color my opinions old school
The Gadgets I don't mind and in fact embrace them (I'm rather digital for my age) I really like the touch screen on the 6. My comment was geared more toward manufacturers than my preferences. The safety features on the horizon look promising, some may even save the increasingly distracted from impending doom.
 I didn't mention Toyota because I just am not interested in the most recalled brand in spite of their huge sales numbers. I agree that some people just buy them because they are so popular. Ironic as they rarely make the top 10 in various car magazine reviews.
These are heady times for car buyers. More competition, more options for the same money, better performance while returning improved mileage and safer vehicles. This is going to be fun!

#17440 of 18220 Re: Jan. midsize sales [benjaminh] by cski

Feb 02, 2013 (10:13 am)

Replying to: benjaminh (Feb 02, 2013 6:17 am)
Thanks Ben. The mid size sedan racket has got to keep corporate sales managers up at night. Particularly the VW man.
 
I think the Passat looks fine; but you really have to lux-it-up to match the levels of equipment in some competitors. Why would I buy a 5 cyl engine with 30 horsepower and 15 torque's less than a four? MPG of 22/32 is ok, but that 5th cylinder is costing you at least 4 mpg hwy and 2-4 city based on competition. Also, it costs 26,800 for the Automatic. vs 20-24 for competitors. a 5 speed manual is std on the SE. (where is the other gear?? all competitors who offer a manual trans have 6 speeds).
 
Again though, it depends on priorities I guess. It has a huge back seat and trunk. Fit and finish are excellent.
 
You guys should know that I owned a 96 TDI so be nice!

#17441 of 18220 Re: In the Market [tundradweller1] by cski

Feb 02, 2013 (10:23 am)

Replying to: tundradweller1 (Feb 02, 2013 7:27 am)
I just saw a review of the 2014 Mazda 6. I really like the 2.2 liter TD with 310 torques!!! 310!!! From a 2.2!!
 
Now that's more like it Mazda. Also, the new interior is awesome looking. The flat screen is integrated nicely and Automobile magazine raved about the seats. They look comfy in the pictures. YES I AM SAYING NICE THINGS ABOUT THE 6 BACKY!!!
 
Lastly, I can't get with the silly grin front end. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

#17442 of 18220 Re: In the Market [benjaminh] by cski

Feb 02, 2013 (10:46 am)

Replying to: benjaminh (Feb 02, 2013 7:12 am)
"Several midsize cars have poor rear visibility, including, I think, Fusion, Optima, Sonata, Passat, Malibu, and Altima"
 
So pretty much all mid-size sedans have poor rear visibility!

Messages Page 1745 of 1823

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