Last post on May 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#9993 of 18184 Toyota Quality Update
Jun 30, 2008 (9:10 am)
I felt the need to make a post somewhere. Back in 2002 I opted away from Ford and toward Toyota. I was tired of numerous trips to the Ford dealership for odd little problems, whether covered under warranty or not. From a dollars perspective, the Fords were cheaper up front. Again the constant trips to the dealer just were a nusisance and at the time I could afford the extra $$$$ for a new Camry. Well, I had NO trips to the dealer other than oil changes and fluid changes for the first 6 years. This year though the camry started to show some wear. Some sort of mechanism in my door that would not allow the keyles entry to work...$425. A sensor...$130 and now a valve job....$1700. Suffice to say I am thankfull I spent the $630 for the 7/75K extended warranty. These repairs have cost me nothing. Of course most would have skipped the valve job, I guess its normal over time for a puff of blew smoke out the tailpipe......but I was disapointed on a Toyota with only 65K miles. Yes the car has been maintained. I also think these valve issues are related to Toyotas much like Chryslers (at least the older ones). Our 95 Rav had the same problem. I never had that problem on our old Topaz and Mystique.
For what its worth....
#9994 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [m6user]
Jun 30, 2008 (9:36 am)
I never heard of Edmunds before I started accessing the internet...
There's a link on Edmunds.com re Edmund's 40th anniversary--not all of those years on the Internet, of course. (Congrats, Edmunds!) I started using their pricing books long ago--as far back as the '70s. I never actually bought one, though--I used the books at libraries or stole a quick look at the grocery store. It was good info then, and even better now since it's so widely available to everyone and updated much more frequently than the books could ever be.
I recall these books weren't very small, nor very large--I would call them mid-sized. (Sorry, very weak attempt to get back on topic.)
#9995 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [imidazol97]
Jun 30, 2008 (9:39 am)
I know, in Mazda's case, that is what happens. It is already billed to the invoice, and is included (just like destination fee) on the price you see on the window sticker.
#9996 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [aviboy97]
Jun 30, 2008 (9:54 am)
It is already billed to the invoice, and is included (just like destination fee) on the price you see on the window sticker.
And that's the case for the other mfrs. The problem is the advertising fee and other fees (fuel, etc.) are not included in the online published dealer invoices. They can't be because they vary from vehicle to vehicle and by geographic location. So dealer invoice on a Ford Focus in Michigan might be slightly different than the same vehicle in Georgia.
The bottom line is the actual dealer invoice and MSRP includes the advertising fee - it's NOT a fee that is ADDED ON by anyone. The online published dealer invoice numbers are simply not accurate.
#9997 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [backy]
Jun 30, 2008 (10:21 am)
Now that you mention it I did see and sometimes look at those books(ditto on the grocery store) but I think the ones I remember were from Kelly Blue Books or something similar. I might have looked at an Edmunds...not sure.
Part of the reason is that the first brand new vehicle I bought was in 1987. I bought about 20 vehicles before then but they were all used cars/trucks/motorcycles for which knowing the invoice price wasn't really a player for me. I can't remember exactly when I started on the internet but I think it was around 1993 or 94.
#9998 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [m6user]
Jun 30, 2008 (10:26 am)
Ah, see what you missed out on--those books had used car/truck pricing also, similar to what Edmunds.com offers today. No motorcycles though, from what I recall.
#9999 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [backy]
Jun 30, 2008 (10:42 am)
I think I have one of those lying around from 1986 when I bought my first new car. I think I still paid just a little under sticker, though.
#10000 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [backy]
Jun 30, 2008 (11:06 am)
My dad had a good buddy that owned a used car lot and I got a lot of info from him via my dad. Got a few cars from the guy too and never got a lemon. One time I came home on leave from overseas for a month and my dad bought a car from him, let me drive it while I was home on leave and sold it after I left. 1966 Dodge Polara 2dr. with the pushbutton auto on the dash. Think he bought and sold it for $300....quite the deal.
#10001 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [m6user]
Jun 30, 2008 (11:58 am)
1966 Dodge Polara 2dr. with the pushbutton auto on the dash.
Time may have diminished your memory of the Dodge. I owned a 1966 Dodge Monaco, a upscale Polara, and it had a conventional shift level on the column for the automatic transmission.
According to an entry about the TorqueFlite transmissions in Wikipedia: "The buttons were replaced by conventional steering column- or floor-mounted shift levers in all automatic Chrysler-built vehicles for the 1965 model year." Maybe the Dodge you drove for a month was a 1964.
#10002 of 18184 Re: RE 9979 & 9980 [bhmr59]
Jun 30, 2008 (12:48 pm)
Volume alone cannot make up for $1500-$2000 below invoice (before rebates).
why do you think ford, GM, and Chrysler are literally hemorageing money, to the tune of 10's of billions a year? if a dealership is selling a car below the invoice price it's almost always because they're getting money from the manufacture. A rebate they arn't telling you about.