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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18200 messages,  Last post on May 21, 2013 at 8:30 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 985 of 1821

#9836 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [backy] by kdshapiro

Jun 08, 2008 (6:42 am)

Replying to: backy (Jun 07, 2008 7:29 am)
But if I looked ONLY at the Accord, I'd miss out on several other fine mid-sized cars such as the Altima, Aura, Camry, Fusion/Milan, Malibu, Optima, Passat, and Sonata that have all been redesigned in the past five years.
 
There may be many potential car consumers not interested in the ownership of Ford, Nissan, GM, Toyota, Hyundia or Kia. So why bother looking? And more importantly why should they bother explaining it?
 
When someone wants to give me my next car, I'll drive what they think is the right pick.
 
As a side note in the last 5 years Honda has raised the bar also.

#9837 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [akirby] by kdshapiro

Jun 08, 2008 (6:47 am)

Replying to: akirby (Jun 06, 2008 11:06 am)
That's not the point. The brainwashing occurs when people are blindly choosing a Camry over a Fusion because they *think* the Camry is more reliable even when all available statistics and user experiences says otherwise.
  
There are many reasons why someone would choose a Camry or Accord over a Fusion. Reliability should not be one of them.
 
I'm circling back on this. That may be your criteria, but people may have a different experience or know someone who has a different experience, in spite of published results. Which is one reason I never take these surveys into account. With the exception of the 10 people on this forum, no one I know uses "published reliability data points" in determining their next purchase. I do not underestimate word of mouth and first/second hand experiences with cars and dealers with regards to purchases.
 
If I believe Camry is more reliable than Fusion and you believe different you can call me ignorant, brainwashed and stupid, but at the end of the day Toyota might be getting my money, for my reasons and all of the head-bashing on this board ain't gonna change that sale.
 
(As a side note I would buy a Camry over a Fusion for a lot of reasons, reliability though isn't one of them.)

#9838 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [kdshapiro] by lilengineerboy

Jun 08, 2008 (7:37 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Jun 08, 2008 6:47 am)
(As a side note I would buy a Camry over a Fusion for a lot of reasons, reliability though isn't one of them.)
 
For the sake of us ignorant ones, what would those reasons be?

#9839 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [kdshapiro] by backy

Jun 08, 2008 (7:58 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Jun 08, 2008 6:42 am)
I was giving my opinion on the subject. If others want to consider only one car or one brand, that's their business and they should do what they want with their hard-earned money.
 
But just wondering... if someone never considers other alternatives besides Honda, how would they know if they have "raised the bar" higher than their competition? Or maybe it doesn't matter to them, e.g. "I like Honda, I've had good experience with them in the past, so I don't care what other automakers offer--I just know the Accord is the right choice for me."

#9840 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [kdshapiro] by akirby

Jun 08, 2008 (12:05 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Jun 08, 2008 6:47 am)
but people may have a different experience or know someone who has a different experience, in spite of published results. Which is one reason I never take these surveys into account. With the exception of the 10 people on this forum, no one I know uses "published reliability data points" in determining their next purchase. I do not underestimate word of mouth and first/second hand experiences with cars and dealers with regards to purchases.
 
Good grief - nobody is trying to tell YOU what to buy. We're talking about making general, objective statements that one brand or model is better than another when the objective evidence suggests otherwise.
 
You must not understand statistical analysis. Let's say you own a Sony TV and you love it - never had a problem with it. However, 82% of the people who bought that same TV had a major failure within 2 years while the failure rate for other similar TVs was 10%. Based on your criteria, you'd buy the Sony again based on your perception that it was more reliable when the objective evidence says that it's totally the opposite.
 
And if you know that a product is statistically less reliable than another product but you choose to buy it anyway because you like it - THAT'S FINE. But that's NOT the same thing as ignoring large sample surveys and hard data and instead relying on your own extremely small sample to make objective comparisons.
 
Do you not comprehend the difference?

#9841 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [packer3] by aviboy97

Jun 09, 2008 (11:10 am)

Replying to: packer3 (Jun 07, 2008 11:53 am)
people have a lot a pride in what they buy and are not willing to tell people or JD Powers when they are having a problem with there Honda or Toyota the answers get fabricated at times.
 
My dad is kinda like that. He has had his tranny replaced in his 2004 Accord V6, and yet to this day he tells people he has had no issues, including me! Because Honda replaced the tranny, he figures nothing went wrong. There are a many Honda/Acura people out there who act like that. Except those VCM owners, they seem to be in full force in expressing their unhappiness.

#9842 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [aviboy97] by m6user

Jun 09, 2008 (2:13 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Jun 09, 2008 11:10 am)
I have a 2003 Tundra that had the tranny replaced at 43000 miles. While I tell people that I have had virtually no other problems with the Toyota truck....I never fail to mention the tranny was replaced. I can't say that when I was younger if I would have though. I could very well have ommitted that detail in my zealousness for the vehicle back then.
 
I had a 1993 Buick LaSabre that I really liked and would tell people I had good luck with it. When I sat down one day and looked at the folder that I kept all the repair bills in, I was shocked to realize all the money I had put into that car over the years. I really liked the car and the major repairs were somewhat spread out. However, the total numbers were pretty staggering when I added them all up. So, I agree. It is easy to whitewash some experience with a vehicle if the vehicle is liked. I would venture to say the opposite is true to some degree as well though.

#9843 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [lilengineerboy] by kdshapiro

Jun 10, 2008 (9:33 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jun 08, 2008 7:37 am)
For the sake of us ignorant ones, what would those reasons be?
 
Two reasons:
 
1. I like the car better,
2. The nearest Toyota dealership provides excellent service.

#9844 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [aviboy97] by kdshapiro

Jun 10, 2008 (9:35 am)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Jun 09, 2008 11:10 am)
Friend had a Ford with some real issues. Gave them all the time and world to fix the problems, as the car was liked. After weeks of being in the shop a lemon law suit was initiated and won. Now drives a Honda.

#9845 of 18200 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [akirby] by kdshapiro

Jun 10, 2008 (9:51 am)

Replying to: akirby (Jun 08, 2008 12:05 pm)
Good grief
 
Based on your criteria, you'd buy the Sony again based on your perception that it was more reliable when the objective evidence says that it's totally the opposite
 
These surveys only matter to a very few individuals. The only real way to collect this data is to mine the manufacturers database of repair records for all of it's models. Otherwise it's a statistical summary of an interpetation, IMO. Which is why first and second hand knowledge of the vehicle and dealerships is more important to me in choosing a car than the surveys.
 
To me choosing a car is very much like choosing a Doctor. When possible I choose docs based on first hand recommendations, rather than looking through listings and surveys.
 
Since there is no way to verify these surveys of opinions I take them with a grain of salt.

Messages Page 985 of 1821

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