Last post on Dec 08, 2013 at 11:06 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#9820 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [akirby]
Jun 06, 2008 (11:12 am)
The brainwashing occurs when people are blindly choosing a Camry over a Fusion because they *think* the Camry is more reliable even when all available statistics and user experiences says otherwise.
I couldn't disagree more. My experiences with Camry owners are that they love their cars. I know more people with Fords with problems than owners of Toyotas. If you are using CR as a yardstick I wouldn't buy a Camry, but not because CR says I shouldn't buy it, because it's not for me. There is simply no plausible evidence to suggest an individual Camry owner will find their new purchase to be anything less than stellar and certainly better than Ford.
#9821 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [kdshapiro]
Jun 06, 2008 (11:49 am)
My experiences with Camry owners are that they love their cars.
I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. I said there are lots of perfectly legitimate reasons why someone might buy a Camry over a Fusion. That includes "I have one and love it","I prefer the styling","I prefer this feature","it has a color or feature I like","I just like Toyotas", etc. That is not the issue.
I know more people with Fords with problems than owners of Toyotas.
That is precisely the type of brainwashing that we're talking about. If that's the ONLY information available to make a decision, then that would be ok. But it's not. How many of those people own recent model year vehicles? Probably not very many. All that proves is that in your extremely tiny statistically insignificant sample of vehicles that were built 3, 5, 8 or 10 years ago or more there were more Fords with problems than Toyotas. It doesn't prove anything about whether a current Ford or Toyota product will be bad or good.
There is simply no plausible evidence to suggest an individual Camry owner will find their new purchase to be anything less than stellar and certainly better than Ford.
That's the most ridiculous statement you've made in quite some time. ALL of the scientific, objective evidence currently available says that the Fusion is just as reliable as a Camry and in some cases, more reliable.
This precisely the brainwashing I was referring to. You can't ignore current, objective data in favor of your subjective and biased opinions based on 5, 10 or even 20 year old vehicles.
That doesn't mean the Camry will fall apart - it won't (not counting engine sludge and bad trannys) - it simply means that neither will the Fusion. So stop trying to pass off subjective biases as objective facts.
#9822 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [akirby]
Jun 06, 2008 (6:26 pm)
This is precisely the point I made earlier- the brainwashing for subjective reasons- not objective reasons or facts. Domestics like the Fusion and Malibu compare quite favorably with Camrys and Accords, but too many people are still stuck on years ago when the quality gap was significant. So if someone favors the Camry or Accord over the Fusion or Malibu for style, options, price, whatever- fine. Just don't use the quality factor or status symbol to disregard domestics.
#9823 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [john178]
Jun 06, 2008 (8:51 pm)
We are creatures of habit. If we buy one Accord or Camry, and if it meets or exceeds our expectations, we will buy another one. When we find something that satisfies us, we tend to stick with it. I would not call that "Brainwashing". I call that EARNING a reputation for building good cars. Accords and Camrys will have to start disappointing owners, for them to switch back to domestics. I don't see it happening yet.
#9824 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [elroy5]
Jun 06, 2008 (10:16 pm)
In a way, "if it didn't break, don't fix it."
Reliability and quality played a part in my shopping experience before choosing my Accord, but it wasn't solely "to blame" for my choice. I preferred the interior style and powertrain of the 2006 Accord over all of its competitors.Having best in class resale and excellent reliability, along with a great dealer nearby and my previous excellent experience with my '96 Accord (which I still drive regularly and now has nearly 182k miles on it), the Accord was a VERY obvious choice.
Yes, the Accord was the first midsizer I looked at, but it wasn't the only. Before shopping, the bar was set at my old '96. To set the bar again, I drove a fairly known entity, another Accord. From there I shopped, and the Accord couldn't be beat for what I wanted.
#9825 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [elroy5]
Jun 07, 2008 (6:06 am)
We are creatures of habit. If we buy one Accord or Camry, and if it meets or exceeds our expectations, we will buy another one. When we find something that satisfies us, we tend to stick with it.
Or we are just dumb. I would say the '93 was average in terms of reliability, but above average in terms of sportiness. I would say that has reversed for the '07. I have had the wife's Subaru wagon this week and I have really enjoyed driving it. Its much more fun to drive, even if it is a wagon.
#9826 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [elroy5]
Jun 07, 2008 (6:29 am)
When we find something that satisfies us, we tend to stick with it.
I agree to a point. When I find a car that satisfies me and is reliable, I will definitely consider that same brand when it's time to buy my next car. But I will look at all of the alternatives also. Why bother to do that? Because in the years since my last car purchase, things have changed. New models emerge, automakers improve (or decline!) in quality, etc. Say I bought an Accord five years ago and it gave me great service. I would of course look at the Accord again when it came time to buy my next car. But if I looked ONLY at the Accord, I'd miss out on several other fine mid-sized cars such as the Altima, Aura, Camry, Fusion/Milan, Malibu, Optima, Passat, and Sonata that have all been redesigned in the past five years. Who knows, I might find something I like even better than the current Accord. Or find a car I like about as much as the Accord, but costs thousands less. I'd never know unless I looked around.
#9827 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [moocow1]
Jun 07, 2008 (6:38 am)
Thats what I've always found interesting about these surveys, especially when there made by the same company like KIA, Hyundai, Chevy,Buick etc they could be the same car with different sheet metal but only one car is named, does the Mfg. turn on a different switch when they change models. Also KIA has improved got some nice cars, however when you read alot of threads from different sites and hear people complain you have to wonder why is some of the feedback is different then what JD Powers reports, should basically be the same people no.
#9828 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [elroy5]
Jun 07, 2008 (6:47 am)
Besides that, people have a lot a pride in what they buy and are not willing to tell people or JD Powers when they are having a problem with there Honda or Toyota the answers get fabricated at times.
Your right Accords and Camrys earned it, the big three use to have the identical reputation years back, nobody would even think about buying a Japanese car, so they indeed have a long road back.
#9829 of 20218 Re: May 2008 Sales up Despite... [packer3]
Jun 07, 2008 (8:29 am)
Haha, sorry, I think that's a little far-fetched. I'd be more willing to believe that if a Honda owner bought their car for being reliable, they'd be more angry with a problematic car and willing to tell the world it was a mistake rather than the other way around.