Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 5:11 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#9520 of 20200 Re: Malibu Vs Accord Vs Camry vs Sonata [lilengineerboy]
May 02, 2008 (5:57 am)
recommending and requiring are certainly 2 different things - the Toyota 2GR in the Camry is rated at 268hp running reqular, the mechanically identical ES is rated at 272 hp running premium - the Avalon when it first came out was rated way up at 280hp with premium as you note, a combination of some rating rule changes as well as the gas change to regular has it now at 268hp as well. The engine (from 2005) has NOT changed, the 268hp 2006+ is the same only that regular gas and the SAE testing rule changes caused many mfgrs. to rerate their engines as I suspect you know. I happen to own both the 2GR(in an 05 Avalon) and a VQ in an 03 Altima- both engines have been singing along now for over 150k (combined) on Regular gas - there may be a very slight power drop (apparently ~4 HP) but there is no discernable loss in FE at all. I don't believe that any of the more current manuals say 'for maximum performance - use premium' anymore which only makes sense - people are getting much more sensitive to gas prices.
Many of these newer V6s BTW courtesy of these more advanced engine control systems can and will run quite well on lower octanes and further can effectively use the higher octanes. For those folks out there that might have a new 3.3 in a Sonata and want a few extra HP simply put in the higher octane gas although I doubt that any normal driver will notice the difference if he/she is not on a dragstrip.
As far as the CTS is concerned, I'm not sure how flexible that engine really is and/or how much the direct injection effects this flexiblility but it is a good engine that obviously runs fine on regular in the Malibu (and several other GM vehicles) and likely would do the same at least in the lower performance Caddys.
#9521 of 20200 Re: Malibu Vs Accord Vs Camry vs Sonata [kdshapiro]
May 02, 2008 (6:12 am)
the caveat is worse gas mileage and poorer performance on non-premium gas
this would seemingly only make sense although my observation is that the HP difference is as inconsequential as the Camry/ES rating difference would seem to say it is and further that there is even less difference in FE. I have a suspicion that once we get into some of this direct injection stuff found in the 2GR-FSE IS350 Lexus for example and FTM in those wonderful high performance German engines that the engine's tolerance for the lower octane stuff may be limited. Somehow I can't imagine that somebody willing to pay a premium for the privilege of driving cars like that are really too concerned about 30 or 40 cents a gallon, and those mfgrs. know that.
#9522 of 20200 Re: Malibu Vs Accord Vs Camry vs Sonata [kdshapiro]
May 02, 2008 (6:26 am)
Since 270 HP (or whatever), in a midsize FWD sedan is ridiculously excessive, I'd think folks could probably manage to get by with the reduced performance from using non-premium gas.
#9523 of 20200 Re: 2008 Accord is selling... [kdshapiro]
May 02, 2008 (9:52 am)
Cars, in general, are selling...
As U.S. consumers definitively reacted to $3.50-a-gallon gasoline, passenger cars outsold truck-based vehicles for the first time in at least 20 years. The move comprised a shift of six percentage points for the industry compared with last April, to 54 percent car sales.
Demand for cars rose 5 percent, to at least 655,000 units in April, compared with 2007, while sales of light trucks – including pickups, traditional SUVs, car-based crossovers, and minivans – plummeted by more than 17 percent, to about 716,000 from 591,000.
Specifically mentions increased sales for several mid-sizes: Malibu, Fusion, Camry, Altima, Sonata
#9524 of 20200 Re: 2008 Accord is selling... [jeffyscott]
May 02, 2008 (1:58 pm)
Your condescension is not appreciated.
Sorry, but it was not an editing error. It was a reading error. I understood what they meant.
It seems you don't mind pointing out errors you think someone else made, but don't like it when someone points out your own. If you live in a glass house,.....
#9525 of 20200 Re: 2008 Accord is selling... [elroy5]
May 02, 2008 (2:32 pm)
I don't know where edmunds gets its numbers, but those are wrong camry sold 40k units in march, not 31k
and here is a second source:
I couldn't help but laugh when I read it. edmunds has always had a bias toward the accord, but this takes the cake. they actually post incorrect sales figures so they can write an article about how wonderful and loved the new accord is
despite its consitient monthly decreases in sales.
I guess when you don't like reality, you just change it.
#9526 of 20200 Re: Malibu Vs Accord Vs Camry vs Sonata [captain2]
May 02, 2008 (3:14 pm)
hey cap, did you notice just about all the duratec engined vehicles went up in sales for april, and most are up the the year too! HA! HA!
#9527 of 20200 Re: 2008 Accord is selling... [jd10013]
May 02, 2008 (6:56 pm)
Edmunds.com must be counting the Solara separately from the Camry, while other sources do not.
So I wonder if they are consistent and count the Matrix separately from the Corolla?
#9528 of 20200 Re: 2008 Accord is selling... [backy]
May 02, 2008 (7:22 pm)
who knows, I just found it amusing. when I saw the numbers, I knew something was wrong. accord sales have been going south since the redesign. well, with the exception of the first month or two all the people waiting on it rushed out to buy one. I guess that bothered edmunds enough (since they welcomed it as the second coming) to manipulate the numbers to make it look like the best selling vehicle, and then write some article claiming as much. the only thing I've never understood is the why. Does the staff all own accords or something? do they own stock in honda? I mean it one thing to write questionable comparisons to other vehicles, but it quite another to engage in the kind of sloppy journalism that the before mentioned article engaged in.
and the better question would be, if they count the coupe version (and probably the hybrid) separately with the camry, why not the accord?
#9529 of 20200 Re: Malibu Vs Accord Vs Camry vs Sonata [kdshapiro]
May 02, 2008 (8:00 pm)
Thought you were talking about "refinement". The 3.0 Liter version of the Duratec in my car makes about 240 HP and 206 Ft-Lbs of torque. It's high compression (10.5 to 1) and has a triple level induction system on it. Totally stock - It'll pull strongly from off idle to redline with the smoothness of a gas turbine. It gives my heavy AWD car very respectable performance and decent fuel economy.