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Sedans Midsize Sedans 2.0
10961 messages, Last post on Oct 11, 2008 at 9:39 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: niceguy1234 (Feb 26, 2008 9:14 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Feb 26, 2008 12:51 pm) If my wife hadn't owned an 80s Hyundai Excel in high school, we would probably have had an Elantra by now (when my wife was commuting 100 miles/day). If I hadn't had a k-car in high school, I probably would've owned an SRT4 by now (at least until the little one showed up). If Ford still made a Contour V6/MTX, I probably would've bought that again. If Subaru still made a turbo stick Legacy wagon, I am sure we would own one now (I still regret getting the base wagon, but the vehicle overall is terrific). The point is some people have biases in their past and it takes a while to over come those, and sometimes, the manufacturer no longer makes what someone is looking for. It took Toyota a while to overcome the stigma of overheating toyopets in southern California, and it took Honda a while to overcome the rusted clasped shock towers in the midwest. I also think the Koreans need to look at their dealer network. The 3 closest Kia dealers look like a Walmart and are run like a 3rd world marketplace. Hyundai dealers are marginally better. Honda/Toyota is more like Best Buy, its a commodity product and they know it. If they don't give your price, there are 3 other dealers within 50 miles with the exact same car. |
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Replying to: drwilsc (Feb 26, 2008 1:26 pm) I submit that what a dash "appears" to be, at a car show, does not give much indication of it's true functionality. Having fewer buttons on a dash will many times create complexity. If you have to press a button 5 times, to cycle through selections, while watching the display for your preference, it creates much longer "eyes off the road time" than pushing one button, one time. More buttons can be easier, and safer than less buttons. For example, my 03 Accord has 1 button for selecting all the A/C vent choices. You push the button however many times to get to the selection you want (floor, windshield, dash vents + combination of floor/windshield for heat and defrost). While this eliminates 3 buttons, and looks neater on the dash, you have to push the button usually at least 3 or 4 times (while watching the display). If you happen to accidentally hit the button 1 extra time, you have to push it 3 more times to cycle back to the correct choice. My Accord has automatic climate control, so I can change the vent positions by the temperature setting. If I had an 03 Accord without the auto climate, I would be wishing for more buttons.
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Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 26, 2008 8:40 pm) I concur that watching a display while cycling through a control can create substantial eyes off road time, but my question is why must the driver look at the display? Is there no other feedback that the button is depressed? Is it due to latency in the system (is there a lag from selection to action)? Multiple presses of the same button/control usually reduce eyes off road time because the driver's finger is already located so the glance to position the finger is eliminated. More buttons can be easier, and safer than less buttons. Again, I concur in some situations, but visual search in a crowded field can also result in eyes off road time. There is also the issue of real estate and packaging, as there are only so many locations where switches can be placed within the reach of the driver and not blocked by another control. You push the button however many times to get to the selection you want (floor, windshield, dash vents + combination of floor/windshield for heat and defrost). While this eliminates 3 buttons, and looks neater on the dash, you have to push the button usually at least 3 or 4 times (while watching the display). That seems a little odd as I thought there was an FMVSS requirement to have the defroster be a top level choice (ie a direct button press). If I had an 03 Accord without the auto climate, I would be wishing for more buttons. My '07 Accord is much more conventional. There is a knob for fan speed, a knob for temp, and a row of buttons to select where the air should go (defrost, feet, face, etc). The trade off between the number of switches and visual clutter lead to things like i-drive and Audi's MMC. It is also why touch screens make their way into non-nav vehicles like the Infiniti. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 27, 2008 5:03 am) 
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Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 26, 2008 8:40 pm) Or, if you actually are familiar with the car you drive (something that usually happens after a few drives), you KNOW exactly how many times to hit the button in order to get the desired function, without increasing the "eyes off the road" time. Sorry, but Honda has a fascination with buttons that neither helps the aesthetics nor the actual functions. Conversely, you have BMW's needlessly-complex and frustrating Idrive, quite possibly the worst control ever placed in a car. Whatever happened to the simple logic of the center console? A separate cluster for the radio (with 8-12 easy functions) located above the HVAC controls (also a separate cluster, with a few easy-to-use rotary knobs and/or a few buttons). Both fall easily to hand, and are easy to operate.
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Feb 27, 2008 6:31 am) This is what the '07 - '09 Camry has. Same as my older Toyotas.
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Replying to: mcdawgg (Feb 27, 2008 6:38 am) As well as the Fusion/Milan, the Altima, the Mazda6, the Malibu, and the Sonata.
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Feb 27, 2008 6:45 am) I like the rotary knob approach for HVAC controls. The knobs are big and grippable even with mittens on (more important than some of you may think, unless you've lived where it regularly gets below zero). They are also intuitive. The only time I'd need to look at them while turning them might be when adjusting between, say, heat and defrost, but I seldom do that while driving and if so it's a click or two away.
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Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 26, 2008 8:40 pm) The Aura has simple dials to choose these selections (as Backy mentioned in the previous post) and manages to be clean and simple without toggling through a menu of choices with a single button. I do have have to agree, though, that the 08 Accord may well be an improvement to the 03, which sounds very inconvenient and possibly a little dangerous if you start fumbling through these choices while driving. |
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