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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13340 messages,  Last post on Dec 06, 2009 at 10:12 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan


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#8769 of 13340
Re: Accord not the ugly duckling anymore? [kdshapiro] by aviboy97
Feb 09, 2008 (10:07 am)
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Feb 07, 2008 4:19 pm)

People in Fairfield are in BMW and MB terriority
 
I see way too many BMW's and MB's. Not to mention every other lux vehicle made. However, there are a lot of people that don't need the lux name, so they buy the blue collar equivalent. That was mainly what I was referring to.
#8770 of 13340
Re: got to have it factor joke [elroy5] by choe13
Feb 09, 2008 (10:31 am)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 09, 2008 7:04 am)

naw what is offensive is that car and driver actually act like some cars are got to have and others are plain old potato. Its tiring that they think they are the gods of the car auto magazine industry when they are really not. A website like edmunds does a far better job in evaluating cars fairly with the right criterias for different classes and have a staff who are mostly made up of average joes but know their cars. (smart buyers)
 
Car and driver should have been smarter and maybe instead of labeling it got to have it factor, label it like intangibles factor or nothing at all.
 
The last point i want to make about this argument is that the sonata was not once criticized in their article except the fact it has more body roll then they preferred yet it is a quiet car. And that was pretty much it. Even the altima and accord got critized more it seemed with either being a little too sporty and not quiet enough, complex interior design etc. Its just funny that on the article about the car you have nothing bad to say about it calling it quiet and smooth(But to expect no body roll ), great value, overall competent etc yet its still placed 4th. Next time they should make up their minds and if it is quiet quit complaining it has some body roll because you can't have a car in this class which has both amazing handling and quietness.
 
just my 2 cents
#8771 of 13340
Re: got to have it factor joke [elroy5] by lilengineerboy
Feb 09, 2008 (10:57 am)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 09, 2008 7:04 am)

CR reports on what cars people buy, and why.
 
No, CR reports on how vehicles match up with their selected criteria. They actually don't appear to care at all about what people actually buy, nor why. If they went off what everyone else did, that would make them not so independent, no?
The closest thing they have is "would you buy that car again," which still seems like a relatively worthless criteria. My life situation changes considerably between vehicles (or even over the last year or so) and its unlikely I would buy either car I have again; one due to availability, and one due to its blah.
 
When some people saw the new 08 Accord, they thought, "I gotta have it". Just because you are not one of these people, doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
And I have no problem with that, but C&D doesn't know if or how many exist either. If it is their way of saying "among our testers, this was their favorite" then that would make sense.
#8772 of 13340
Re: got to have it factor joke [choe13] by backy
Feb 09, 2008 (12:00 pm)
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Replying to: choe13 (Feb 09, 2008 10:31 am)

Based on C/D's criteria, too much body roll for their taste plus slower acceleration in the 1/4 mile plus the subjective factors like "gotta have it", were enough to put the Sonata 4th in the scoring. But as we've been reminded by other posters here, the raw scores don't tell the whole story. As you noted, the comments from C/D's editors were very positive about the Sonata, except for having too much body roll for their taste and a wish for the structure to be as stiff as the Accord's and Altima's, two newer designs. So when you look at the overall picture, and how the Sonata scored just 2 points overall (or about 1%) behind one of C/D's 10Best, the Malibu (and beat it on Vehicle and Powertrain), and tied another C/D 10Best, the Accord, on Vehicle and got nipped on Powertrain only because of being 0.4 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile test, I think it was a very impressive showing for a refresh of a car that debuted in late 2004 (in the home market), up against newer designs from Honda, Nissan, and Chevy.
#8773 of 13340
Re: Accord not the ugly duckling anymore? [kdshapiro] by bhmr59
Feb 09, 2008 (12:03 pm)
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Feb 07, 2008 4:19 pm)

Obviously you do not live in Fairfield County, or you are in lower Farifield County...that's where the big bucks are.
 
Most of Fairfield County residents aren't rich. Housing costs are very high. Gasoline at the lowest place in my area just dropped to $3.19, although 15 miles away it's 10 cents cheaper. My gas heat bill issued 2/6/08, 32 day period, 921 degree days, 274 CCF of usage (we have programmable thermostats with the heat at 62 to 65 almost all time time, one 264 sq ft room on it's own heating zone is at 70 for 5 hours) was $414. Electric bill, 30 days, 563Kwh = $126.
 
Yeah, in our town there's BMWs, some MBs, a lot of new(er) SUVs. Most of those BMWs & MBs are purchased to impress and most of them are not bought new.
 
Some people prefer a new reliable car and others will buy a few year old name badge. I guess I don't live in the right part of Fairfield County and certainly don't have a high enough income to have hired help, never mind buying a car for that hired help.
#8774 of 13340
Re: Accord not the ugly duckling anymore? [bhmr59] by kdshapiro
Feb 09, 2008 (12:26 pm)
Reply

Replying to: bhmr59 (Feb 09, 2008 12:03 pm)

My bad, I confused your part of town with Greenwich. My point still stands though.
#8775 of 13340
acura tsx/tl or lincoln mkz by robger99
Feb 09, 2008 (12:50 pm)
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Lease is up on my speed 6 and am looking at acura TSX or TL or lincoln MKZ .TSX is slightly cheaper($350.00 month) with the TL and MkZ being pretty equal cost wise($400.00 month). All 36 month lease with 15k/year with total out of pocket $1000.00.Any advice on either cars or prices would be appreciated.
#8776 of 13340
Re: Accord not the ugly duckling anymore? [bhmr59] by aviboy97
Feb 09, 2008 (4:31 pm)
Reply

Replying to: bhmr59 (Feb 09, 2008 12:03 pm)

I have noticed that there are a lot of us residents of Fairfield County, CT here on Edmunds. Very interesting, considering how small of an area we live in.
#8777 of 13340
Re: Accord not the ugly duckling anymore? [aviboy97] by bhmr59
Feb 09, 2008 (5:50 pm)
Reply

Replying to: aviboy97 (Feb 09, 2008 4:31 pm)

Hi aviboy,
 
I'm in Trumbull, some 40 miles from Greenwhich and just a few miles from the economically hurting city of Bridgeport.
 
We (my 2 man company) bought bought our latest Sonata in Denville, NJ at Towne Hyundai. They're 100 miles from my house. Through word of mouth, Towne Hyundai has sold 8 cars in the last year through our and a friend's recommendations.
 
Key Hyundai in Bridgeport is good for service, but they don't have good selling prices. Before I heard of Towne, I flew to Naples, FL in April 2005 and saved (after including trip expenses) $1500. [It didn't cost me anything to stay in Naples because my parents live there.]
#8778 of 13340
Re: acura tsx/tl or lincoln mkz [robger99] by lilengineerboy
Feb 10, 2008 (5:03 am)
Reply

Replying to: robger99 (Feb 09, 2008 12:50 pm)

Robger99 - the TSX is due for a redue, IIRC it has been out for a while in its current guise. The nice thing about it and the TL is the availability of a 6 speed manual transmission, I didn't know if that was an issue coming from the Speed6. The TSX is also smaller than the others you mentioned, and is probably the sportiest of the bunch. It is also the most related to the Accord and has a 4 cylinder while the others have V6s (of course, coming from the Speed6, you probably understand a powerful 4 can be fine). Personally, the TL didn't do much for me. It was very nice but didn't stir my soul or anything.
I haven't driven the MKZ yet. I did like the interior alot and if the Sync with navigation is a great system. Even without nav, it is cheaper than a lot of stand-alone car kits and allows hands free operation of the audio system and any device connected to it as well. The handling for the MKZ is supposed to be on the sporty side, but I haven't driven it yet.
Have you driven these 3 cars? Did you have a favorite?

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