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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13145 messages,  Last post on Nov 11, 2009 at 8:09 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#8762 of 13145 Re: "gotta have it" [karsick] by lilengineerboy Feb 08, 2008 (7:48 pm)
Replying to: karsick (Feb 08, 2008 5:03 pm) So the Mini is 18, the Aveo is 11. The Mini has a better basic warranty, 15 more horsepower, 7 lb-ft of torque, 6 speed vs 5 speed, bigger alloy wheels, better suspension, better interior materials (and having sat in the Aveo and the Mini, the quality of the seats is much better), tilt and telescope wheel vs just tilt, more power outlets, retained power, air filtration, standard 4 wheel discs with ABS, traction control, better fuel economy/cruising range, better acceleration and braking... I think there is some objective differences here, in addition to the subjective ones.
#8763 of 13145 Re: "gotta have it" [joe97] by backy Feb 08, 2008 (8:04 pm)
Replying to: joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 6:28 pm) I have a feeling some marketing folk at HMA are kicking themselves about now, slapping themselves upside the head with "We coulda sent an SE!" When you consider C/D's two knocks on the 2009 Limited were that its platform was not as stiff as the Accord's or Altima's (probably nothing to do about that until the next redesign) and the reflexes needed to be 10% quicker, the sport suspension and handling on the SE could have taken care of that issue perhaps. For the price point C/D was shooting for, they actualy could have tested an SE V6, and blown the doors off the other entries, ala the Edmunds' Accord/Sonata/Camry comparo from a couple of years ago. But since the idea was to test I4 cars with ATs, their report on the SE V6 will have to wait for another day.
#8764 of 13145 Hyundai more expensive than Camry and Malibu by elroy5 Feb 08, 2008 (8:31 pm)
I don't see this being a good thing for Sonata sales. http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/07/2009-hyundai-sonata-gets-big-bump-in-price/ Replies to this message: backy (Feb 08, 2008 9:27 pm) lightfootfl (Feb 10, 2008 7:01 am) csandste (Feb 10, 2008 9:58 am)
#8765 of 13145 Re: Hyundai more expensive than Camry and Malibu [elroy5] by backy Feb 08, 2008 (9:27 pm)
Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 08, 2008 8:31 pm) According to price data at Edmunds.com, the blog entry is in error. The list price of the base 2009 Sonata, the GLS 5MT, is $18,795 including destination charge. The list price of the base 2009 Camry, the CE 5MT, is $19,380. However, if you want ESC, which is standard on the Sonata, that's an additional $650 on the Camry, so the price difference becomes $1235. So the Sonata is not more expensive than the Camry.   As for the Malibu, the least-expensive Malibu is $19,995 including destination. It has a 4AT but no ESC (or body side moldings for that matter, they are $150 extra). The least expensive Sonata with an AT (5AT with Shifttronic) is $19,995--the same as the base Malibu w/o ESC. The least expensive Malibu with ESC is $21,280.   Don't believe everything you read in a blog.
#8766 of 13145 got to have it factor joke by choe13 Feb 09, 2008 (12:47 am)
Honestly the got it factor is a joke plain and simple. I rather have excellent safety capabilities criteria which is alot more important in this type vehicle = family mid size.   If i could make up a ridiculous criteria it would be "ugly factor" which then the accord would accumulate pts in minuses. It is one ugly car inside and out. Replies to this message: lilengineerboy (Feb 09, 2008 6:12 am) elroy5 (Feb 09, 2008 7:04 am) choe13 (Feb 09, 2008 10:31 am) and 1 more... lilengineerboy (Feb 09, 2008 10:57 am)
#8767 of 13145 Re: got to have it factor joke [choe13] by lilengineerboy Feb 09, 2008 (6:12 am)
Replying to: choe13 (Feb 09, 2008 12:47 am) You also have to remember that no one on this forum represents a "typical" buyer if simply because they are users of this forum. They are more educated with respect to automotive technologies, and certainly more motivated to push an agenda (thats not bad, people here talk about what they like). I would thing consumers who are willing to buy a sport oriented magazine dedicated to cars would also be in that category. I definitely agree that its silly. I could see like MSN doing something like that or some other online type thing, but not a true car magazine, nor an anticar magazine like CR. Replies to this message: elroy5 (Feb 09, 2008 7:04 am) choe13 (Feb 09, 2008 10:31 am) backy (Feb 09, 2008 12:00 pm) lilengineerboy (Feb 09, 2008 10:57 am)
#8768 of 13145 Re: got to have it factor joke [lilengineerboy] by elroy5 Feb 09, 2008 (7:04 am)
Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 09, 2008 6:12 am) CR reports on what cars people buy, and why. When some people saw the new 08 Accord, they thought, "I gotta have it". Just because you are not one of these people, doesn't mean they don't exist. Replies to this message: choe13 (Feb 09, 2008 10:31 am) backy (Feb 09, 2008 12:00 pm) lilengineerboy (Feb 09, 2008 10:57 am)
#8769 of 13145 Re: Accord not the ugly duckling anymore? [kdshapiro] by aviboy97 Feb 09, 2008 (10:07 am)
Replying to: kdshapiro (Feb 07, 2008 4:19 pm) People in Fairfield are in BMW and MB terriority   I see way too many BMW's and MB's. Not to mention every other lux vehicle made. However, there are a lot of people that don't need the lux name, so they buy the blue collar equivalent. That was mainly what I was referring to.
#8770 of 13145 Re: got to have it factor joke [elroy5] by choe13 Feb 09, 2008 (10:31 am)
Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 09, 2008 7:04 am) naw what is offensive is that car and driver actually act like some cars are got to have and others are plain old potato. Its tiring that they think they are the gods of the car auto magazine industry when they are really not. A website like edmunds does a far better job in evaluating cars fairly with the right criterias for different classes and have a staff who are mostly made up of average joes but know their cars. (smart buyers)   Car and driver should have been smarter and maybe instead of labeling it got to have it factor, label it like intangibles factor or nothing at all.   The last point i want to make about this argument is that the sonata was not once criticized in their article except the fact it has more body roll then they preferred yet it is a quiet car. And that was pretty much it. Even the altima and accord got critized more it seemed with either being a little too sporty and not quiet enough, complex interior design etc. Its just funny that on the article about the car you have nothing bad to say about it calling it quiet and smooth(But to expect no body roll ), great value, overall competent etc yet its still placed 4th. Next time they should make up their minds and if it is quiet quit complaining it has some body roll because you can't have a car in this class which has both amazing handling and quietness.   just my 2 cents Replies to this message: backy (Feb 09, 2008 12:00 pm)
#8771 of 13145 Re: got to have it factor joke [elroy5] by lilengineerboy Feb 09, 2008 (10:57 am)
Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 09, 2008 7:04 am) CR reports on what cars people buy, and why.   No, CR reports on how vehicles match up with their selected criteria. They actually don't appear to care at all about what people actually buy, nor why. If they went off what everyone else did, that would make them not so independent, no? The closest thing they have is "would you buy that car again," which still seems like a relatively worthless criteria. My life situation changes considerably between vehicles (or even over the last year or so) and its unlikely I would buy either car I have again; one due to availability, and one due to its blah.   When some people saw the new 08 Accord, they thought, "I gotta have it". Just because you are not one of these people, doesn't mean they don't exist.   And I have no problem with that, but C&D doesn't know if or how many exist either. If it is their way of saying "among our testers, this was their favorite" then that would make sense.

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