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13335 messages,  Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 8:29 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#8754 of 13335 Re: Car and driver comparison joke [backy] by according2u06 Feb 08, 2008 (2:44 pm)
Replying to: backy (Feb 08, 2008 8:16 am) Well, I guess it's just a bit of everything, handling(the obvious one), engine & transmission refinement, quality interior materials used, gauge display etc. Note my brother does not own either car and little info was given to him, and I never drove the Sonata, so I can't say much here.   By the way, I thought the 2009 Sonata is the 'redesigned' model, and the 08 Accord beat them again? Or is it just the mid cycle 'refresh'? If so the Sonata could catch up earlier than I think they might if they indeed address all the shortcomings of the current model. Replies to this message: backy (Feb 08, 2008 3:20 pm) joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 4:51 pm)
#8755 of 13335 Re: Car and driver comparison joke [elroy5] by busiris Feb 08, 2008 (2:53 pm)
Replying to: elroy5 (Feb 08, 2008 2:41 pm) Just to add my 2 cents worth on this issue....   Seems to me that, if the majority of folks buy a car primarily based upon the technical and quantitative scores a car gets, then the car getting the highest score each year would also be the best selling...assuming prices are relatively even between models.   Looks like a simple theory to prove or disprove. My guess is that sales don't follow technical scoring data in a 1 to 1 correlation....I think you will find that people also include other factors in their decision making process, such as previous brand experience, dealer treatment and reputation, etc...
#8756 of 13335 Re: Car and driver comparison joke [targettuning] by socal2006 Feb 08, 2008 (3:05 pm)
Replying to: targettuning (Feb 08, 2008 10:05 am) I'm not sure what point you are making here...   Of course, most car buyers in the family sedan segment are not looking at factors such as fun to drive, gotta have it, etc. This is borne out by the sales figures.   But, does that mean C&D should not judge family sedans by these criteria? Clearly, a proportion of buyers do buy cars (even family sedans) based on more "subjective" criteria. In fact, Edmunds created a whole new section of their website to cater these buyers (Insideline). These types of buyers are the main subscription base of a magazine like C&D. How, then, can you fault C&D for using these measures? Indeed, they'd be foolish not to use "subjective" measures; they would lose their reason for existence.   When reading a car review, it's important to know who the reviewer is and for what audience he is writing. And, as is often said on these forums, drive the cars for yourself and decide what fits you best.   Sure, the performance enthusiasts' favorite cars will often have the bragging rights, but, hey, don't let that bother you.
#8757 of 13335 Re: Car and driver comparison joke [according2u06] by backy Feb 08, 2008 (3:20 pm)
Replying to: according2u06 (Feb 08, 2008 2:44 pm) No, as mentioned earlier, the 2009 Sonata is a mid-generation refresh, not a redesign. Replies to this message: joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 4:51 pm)
#8758 of 13335 Sonata Refreshes by prosource1 Feb 08, 2008 (3:35 pm)
Keep in mind that Hyundai's refreshes often entail leaps and bounds as they spend about 10% of their profits on R&D. This means that when others change headlights and bumpers, Hyundai is changing underpinnings, engines and implementing a great deal of engineering knowledge gained from the aforementioned R&D. I often laugh when I hear someone negatively comment after driving a Hyundai even 24-36 mos. ago considering the fact that Hyundai has hired 2500 engineers and spent $15 billion upgrading engineering and manufacturing and build processes at their Namyang, Ulsan, Detroit, Fountain Valley and Munich plants, studios and testing facilities. Hyundai's progress has been staggering but we are really just seeing the beginning. The 'Genesis' is indeed appropriately named for the BK platform in both sedan and coupe forms is going to bring some serious improvements for Hyundai. Now if they can just hire a good ad agency to properly promote what is to come.
#8759 of 13335 Re: Car and driver comparison joke [backy] by joe97 Feb 08, 2008 (4:51 pm)
Replying to: backy (Feb 08, 2008 3:20 pm) I think the most telling points from the Sonata refresh, aside from the fantastic interior revisions, are the engines and corresponding fuel economy.   The 2.4L I4 & 3.3L V6 get bump in hp to 175 and 249 respectively. Despite the increase, MPG gains further, with the I4 now boasts as class-leading, and the V6 is at the top of the pack, if not the best (I don't recall exactly).   Of course, all those, plus list of features longer than _____ (put whatever you feel like ), quality and reliability attributes, kick-a$$ warranty, roomiest car, and many other goods, what's not to like.
#8760 of 13335 Re: "gotta have it" by karsick Feb 08, 2008 (5:03 pm)
Replying to: kdshapiro (Feb 08, 2008 11:02 am) Just more proof of the "gotta have it" theory....   Anyone ever compare the raw numbers on the Chevy Aveo with the numbers for the basic Mini Cooper?????   ... or the Cooper vs the Yaris, the Accent or the Rio????   Not much separates these cars objectively, but one company charges twice as much, and their cars are known for retaining a high % of their value despite being more problematic.   Anybody honestly think "gotta have it" isn't important to buyers? Replies to this message: joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 6:28 pm) backy (Feb 08, 2008 8:04 pm) lilengineerboy (Feb 08, 2008 7:48 pm)
#8761 of 13335 Re: "gotta have it" [karsick] by joe97 Feb 08, 2008 (6:28 pm)
Replying to: karsick (Feb 08, 2008 5:03 pm) Except the Mini buyers generally don't cross-shop with the subcompacts you listed, and vice versa.   Let's talk about the same class of vehicles and this class, and I agree with what Backy said earlier, the Sonata SE should have been sent instead of the LTD. Still, the Sonata is competent enough to take on any car in the class; the refresh just makes such fact even more objective and compelling. Replies to this message: backy (Feb 08, 2008 8:04 pm)
#8762 of 13335 Re: "gotta have it" [karsick] by lilengineerboy Feb 08, 2008 (7:48 pm)
Replying to: karsick (Feb 08, 2008 5:03 pm) So the Mini is 18, the Aveo is 11. The Mini has a better basic warranty, 15 more horsepower, 7 lb-ft of torque, 6 speed vs 5 speed, bigger alloy wheels, better suspension, better interior materials (and having sat in the Aveo and the Mini, the quality of the seats is much better), tilt and telescope wheel vs just tilt, more power outlets, retained power, air filtration, standard 4 wheel discs with ABS, traction control, better fuel economy/cruising range, better acceleration and braking... I think there is some objective differences here, in addition to the subjective ones.
#8763 of 13335 Re: "gotta have it" [joe97] by backy Feb 08, 2008 (8:04 pm)
Replying to: joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 6:28 pm) I have a feeling some marketing folk at HMA are kicking themselves about now, slapping themselves upside the head with "We coulda sent an SE!" When you consider C/D's two knocks on the 2009 Limited were that its platform was not as stiff as the Accord's or Altima's (probably nothing to do about that until the next redesign) and the reflexes needed to be 10% quicker, the sport suspension and handling on the SE could have taken care of that issue perhaps. For the price point C/D was shooting for, they actualy could have tested an SE V6, and blown the doors off the other entries, ala the Edmunds' Accord/Sonata/Camry comparo from a couple of years ago. But since the idea was to test I4 cars with ATs, their report on the SE V6 will have to wait for another day.

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