Last post on May 23, 2013 at 3:51 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#8177 of 18218 Re: No. 1 prejudice [urnews]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:31 pm)
"Well, I do believe GM sells more cars (and trucks) in the U.S. than does Toyota. But Camry is No. 1 in mid-size sales, followed closely by Accord. Not sure who is No. 3, Altima maybe?"
Toyota has the best selling nameplate. Gm is the leader in midsize sales. The Impala outsold the Altima in 2006 and will again this year. It even outsold the Accord a few months this year.
cars like the Fusion or Malibu dont even have the production capacity to exceed the camry. Best seller is an award for ad purposes, it means little. Ford advertises that it has the best selling truck but GM sells more pickups so I dont think GM cares. If GM changed the name of all its midsize cars to Malibu it would instantly have the best selling midsizer. It doesnt matter to me, but apparently it does to others. When I ask people if the most sales makes the F150 the best pickup (and vehicle) in American they seem to get a little ambiguous. If sales are all that matters than the F150 is about twice as good as the Camry and WAY better than the Tundra. The fact of the matter is Toyota doesnt have enough capacity to exceed F150 sales even though the Tundra is a better vehicle.
#8178 of 18218 Re: No. 1 prejudice [mrsyj]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:37 pm)
Actually I can.
No you can't. The Impala is not part of this discussion and according to EPA it is a fullsize car. I have no problem agreeing with you that with or without fleet sales Impala is the best selling fullsize car but that's not what we are discussing here aren't we?
how many altima, Sonata and camry sales are fleets? Gm has cut its fleet sales and thats one reason Lacrosse, Grand prix and G6 sales have been down this year.
I though you would never ask...
Here are the numbers for fleet sales for the first part of 2007, let's see how much GM cut back on its fleet sales this year:
Chevy Malibu 58.8%
Chevy Impala 53.9%
Pontiac G6 36.2%
Saturn Aura 23.7%
Buick LaCrosse 29.2%
Honda Accord 4.9%
Nissan Altima 16.4%
Toyota Camry 7.7%
Source: Fleet Sales - first half 2007
Even the brand spanking new Aura had about 1/4 of total units going to fleets. GM is definitely cutting back on fleet sales...
About police cars, I don't know why we are discussing this but the bottom line is the imports don't need that market to generate sales.
#8179 of 18218 Re: No. 1 prejudice [mrsyj]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:40 pm)
The Impala is NOT a midsize car, period.
Maybe the host can help us out with this...
#8180 of 18218 Re: Edmunds' Editors-for-a-Day speak out [mrsyj]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:41 pm)
As for fleets, they are a part of business. If Toyota makes a police package camry then I'm sure cops will buy it. Fleets must not be all bad since Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are relying on them more than ever. Fleet sales are 9% of Toyota sales and a higher % of Nissan's.
9%-20% pales in comparison to 53.9% for the Impala. And if fleet sales is fine, why do manufacturers try to reduce it? BTW, that would include GM.
#8181 of 18218 Re: Edmunds' Editors-for-a-Day speak out [louiswei]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:42 pm)
"Yeah sure, it's part of the business but it's the part that companies would LOVE to be without. Sure Toyota has higher fleet sales than Nissan and Honda but what about compare to GM, Ford and the new fleet favorite Chrysler? "
A few things to note. The bad fleets sales are the rentals, not the police cars and corporate cars. The Asians ONLY deal in fleets while Gm's fleet sales includes rentals, government, companies, contractors, etc. IF you compare RENTAL %s only the numbers wont be too far off. GM is at 23% fleet I believe which is low by historical standards. And of course that includes all those cars they sell to the government.
Mark my words, the Asians will continue to increase the fleet sales year after year. Hyundai is doing it big time to keep Sonatas moving out of the factory. Same with the Mazda6, Kia Optima and others. 10 years ago you couldnt find an Asian midsizer on a rental lot.
#8182 of 18218 Re: Edmunds' Editors-for-a-Day speak out [robertsmx]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:47 pm)
"9%-20% pales in comparison to 53.9% for the Impala. And if fleet sales is fine, why do manufacturers try to reduce it? BTW, that would include GM. "
a) the figures you are quoting are not current- I've seen them quoted many times before. BTW, you should only compare Impala RENTAL sales to altima and camry rental sales. Unless there are Camry police cars I dont know about its not fair to lump all fleet sales together and say Camry and altima are far lower. Of course they are, their vehicles arent eligible for many of the uses that are applicable to Impala.
b) Gm is trying to reduce rental sales NOT all fleet sales. The imports only have rentals as fleet sales. They dont sell to governments.
#8183 of 18218 Re: Edmunds' Editors-for-a-Day speak out [backy]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:49 pm)
I used to think that, several years ago. I used to think that every Toyota and Honda, whether it was a brand-new design or a mature model, would have stellar reliability. And they did. But then things changed, e.g. 1999 Odyssey... 2001 Civic... Sludge on Toyota engines... 2003 Accord... 2007 Camry. All of these had significant problems.
Since I own one of those 03 Accords (51k miles), I would like to know what these "significant problems" are? Your definition of "significant", and my definition of "minor" must be very similar. I don't think 0$ spent on repairs is considered "significant". Highly exadurated, IMO.
#8184 of 18218 Re: No. 1 prejudice [louiswei]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:52 pm)
"No you can't. The Impala is not part of this discussion and according to EPA it is a fullsize car. I have no problem agreeing with you that with or without fleet sales Impala is the best selling fullsize car but that's not what we are discussing here aren't we? "
I will say this, to the EPA its not midsize. To consumers it would be since its barely larger than midsizers in this class. I asked a while back if this means the Accord should be banned from this discussion. I did not see a response. GM sells more midsizers even without the Impala so if you only care about EPA classifications it can be removed even though consumers see it as a competitor to the midsizers in this class. Now that I think about it I believe the sonata is also a fullsize car.
The % of fleet sales in 2007 are irrelevant if we dont have the previus year's stats. GM overall has reduced fleet sales. It may not be enough, but it is happening.
#8185 of 18218 Re: Edmunds' Editors-for-a-Day speak out [elroy5]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:54 pm)
You know, we've already had this discussion. But if you insist, I consider a recall of over 1 million cars due to a transmission problem that could cause transmission failure (and an accident) to be significant.
When talking about reliability, we can't just talk about the experience of one person, with one car.
#8186 of 18218 Re: No. 1 prejudice [louiswei]
Dec 21, 2007 (12:56 pm)
"Honda Accord 4.9%
Nissan Altima 16.4%
Toyota Camry 7.7% "
I checked out that table and I see why you didnt show Sonata, Optima, 6 or Galant up there. Honda is out of the discussion because we all know that Honda really doesnt do rentals. I saw something recently about the % increase or decrease in fleet sales in 2007 and the increases for Nissan and Toyota were very large while all of the Big 3 had declines. I think GM was down about 5% or so.