Last post on May 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#7996 of 18220 Re: Toyota [Sporin]
Dec 10, 2007 (12:15 pm)
Question is, how long can Toyota grow and prosper on reputation alone? How long before the masses notice the change?
Try "now." A cousin of mine is going to buy a mid-sized sedan before the end of the year. He didn't even consider the Camry seriously based on what he's heard about quality and how it drives. He's narrowed it down to the Accord LX and Sonata GLS or SE (I4 with stick). He said he's decided on the Sonata, as he doesn't think the Accord is worth the extra money, although he likes both of them.
The masses are beginning to notice the change, but it will take a little while to show up in a big way in sales figures. But I predict it will happen, and probably in 2008. I think we'll see the Camry lose its sales crown for this class, with the Accord taking #1 again and others including the Altima, Malibra, Fulan, refreshed Sonata, and new-for-2009 Mazda6 picking up the slack. Maybe even the Optima will pick up some individual sales--Kia is certainly trying hard to push it, I'm seeing ads for it everywhere.
#7997 of 18220 Re: MPG on winter gas [robertsmx]
Dec 10, 2007 (12:26 pm)
EPA ratings are overly pessimistic already.
Don't you mean optimistic?
#7998 of 18220 Re: MPG on winter gas [urnews]
Dec 10, 2007 (12:28 pm)
Only for you Boz!
#7999 of 18220 Re: MPG on winter gas [urnews]
Dec 10, 2007 (12:34 pm)
Nope. Both of my cars met or beat the old ratings (despite of my driving style). The new ratings are lower, and as a result, extremely pessimistic. Unless I were driving my cars for no more than 2 miles in uptown area with four traffic lights within a quarter mile and speed not exceeding 30 mph, I simply don't see them getting as poor fuel economy as EPA ratings suggest.
With the new ratings, I'm simply having to add 10-15% to come up with my expectations. So, if EPA says 18 mpg, it will be a surprise to me if I didn't get (at least) ~21 mpg.
To add to it, EPA actually doesn't use AC/climate control in most of its cycles, whereas I rarely shut them down.
#8000 of 18220 Re: Motor Trend article [plekto]
Dec 10, 2007 (1:27 pm)
Still, the RX-8 costs a good $10,000 less than a G35(350 has no back seats) or a BMW.
Does the RX 8 cost 25k (g35 is around 35k well loaded)? In any case, most testers have reported around 13mpg for the RX8
"As for the back seat, let's face it - we have passengers exactly HOW often that aren't kids? The BMW's rear seats aren't large, either."
The BMW 3er has a pretty decent back seat compared to an RX8, and the G35 even better. In addition, the ingress/egress to the RX 8's back seat is not at easy as say, a G35 or a 3er, and this becomes more problematic if you have small children that need to be strapped to chiled seats/boosters.
#8001 of 18220 Re: Edmund's V6 comparo [backy]
Dec 10, 2007 (1:32 pm)
I would be surprised if the accord has better Nov sales than the Camry; that thing is selling boatloads.
When I rented one; I specifically noticed the poor fit of dashboard components, in fact some areas were so misaligned, I thought it had to be an anamoly. Guess not.
I would expect a comparo sometime later next year, with a Mazda6, Accord, Camry, Malibu, Sonata (updated), Altima, Optima (they have been getting rave reviews) and Fusion (if updated) sometimg late next year. If the size is a problem, than most publications will pick the newer redesigns along with best sellers (IMO)
Dec 10, 2007 (1:34 pm)
Why am I not surprised your cousin is picking the Sonata
With Backy in the vicinity, I would think it must be hard to pick something else (Just kidding, bud!)
#8003 of 18220 Re: Motor Trend article [plekto]
Dec 10, 2007 (1:36 pm)
the RX-8 costs a good $10,000 less than a G35(350 has no back seats) or a BMW.
If you get an RX-8 GT, which is comparable to a G35, you are looking at $31,705 with no extras. Yes, that is MSRP, and there is negotiation involved, but, to save $10,000 on a new RX-8 is not possible. Inventory is slim to begin with, you are not really going to find a dealer to beg you to take one. There is such a power advantage in the G35 as well, but, the Rex handles much much better.
#8004 of 18220 Re: Toyota [03accordman]
Dec 10, 2007 (1:44 pm)
Actually, he asked me about it only after he had his sights set on the Sonata. I asked him why not the Accord, and he told me he didn't think it was worth the extra bucks. I suggested he check out the Mazda6 (he has a 626 now), Fulan, and Optima before he buys. (He wants a stick so the Malibu and Aura are no-ops. He'd already eliminated the Camry and Altima.) I also suggested he take a peek at the Elantra SE, but he said his wife wanted more interior room. Maybe that's why he focused on the Accord and Sonata, they are class-leading in interior room.
So, sorry to disappoint you. Someone made up his own mind about picking the Sonata over the Accord.
Dec 10, 2007 (2:02 pm)
Personally, I'm glad for everyone who picks SOMETHING OTHER than a car like mine! It's hard to be "exclusive" in an Accord.