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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18205 messages,  Last post on May 22, 2013 at 3:13 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 723 of 1821

#7219 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [zzzoom6] by thegraduate

Nov 12, 2007 (3:20 pm)

Replying to: zzzoom6 (Nov 12, 2007 3:09 pm)
Edmonds just tested the v-6 Accord w/ a manual transmission and found it's 0-60 time was 6.3 seconds. The Altima's 0-60 time was 6.2 seconds. MotorTrend found the Mazda6 v-6 with a manual to be 6.4 seconds. Car and Driver tested the Mazda6 at 6.7 seconds. Most everyone have noticed that from a complete stop the Mazda6 is not the quickest off the line but it makes up time as it revs higher where there's more torque. So that suggests that from a rolling start, the Mazda6 would out-accelerate the Accord.
 
Edmunds typically has slower runs that those car magazines you mention.
 
Case-in-point:
 
Motor Trend numbers for 2003-2005 Camry and Accord: 8.5 seconds to 60MPH, 9.5 seconds to 60MPH. Both are 4-cylinder models.
 
Edmunds has the same cars (2005 models instead of 2003 like in Motor Trend). They quote the acceleration numbers at 9.5 and 10.3 for Accord and Camry, in that order.
 
So, to compare Motor Trend or C&D to Edmunds, you really need to take into account Edmunds' tendencies to get times slower by around one second to 60 MPH.
 
I'll look at numbers from the SAME source a lot more closely. Different sources will offer HUGE variables, as in the example I provided.
 
Most everyone have noticed that from a complete stop the Mazda6 is not the quickest off the line but it makes up time as it revs higher where there's more torque. So that suggests that from a rolling start, the Mazda6 would out-accelerate the Accord.
 
Um, no it doesn't. (Correct me if I'm not following your logic)
 
It means that it has more meager low-end power, and it improves with higher revs. The Accord's power is more than ample at the low-end, but it improves with higher revs just like the Mazda. The Accord has more top-end power than the Mazda, so it would out-accelerate the Mazda.
 
I'm not a drag racer (I have a 4-cyl vehicle), but I couldn't help but chime in since it was brought up.

#7220 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [thegraduate] by zzzoom6

Nov 12, 2007 (3:36 pm)

Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 12, 2007 3:20 pm)
So you're saying the Accord's 0-60 time in Motortrend will be 5.3 seconds? Yeah, I'll take that bet...

#7221 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [zzzoom6] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (3:39 pm)

Replying to: zzzoom6 (Nov 12, 2007 3:09 pm)
a few things - first, acceleration times from different sources on different vehicles are NOT comparable - second, it is that higher torque of the Honda engine applied over time (also called HP) that means it must outaccelerate the Mazda (other factors equal) and lastly the other factors aren't really equal - the new Accord (which I assume is the one you are talking about) is in a different category size (and weight) wise.

#7222 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [zzzoom6] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (3:42 pm)

Replying to: zzzoom6 (Nov 12, 2007 3:36 pm)
manual tranny and a little car abuse - I would be willing to take 5.8 or so - 5.3 OTH is really really quick.

#7223 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [zzzoom6] by thegraduate

Nov 12, 2007 (3:50 pm)

Replying to: zzzoom6 (Nov 12, 2007 3:36 pm)
Never said that so you'll be betting against yourself. Quit putting words in my mouth zzzoom6.
 
I would be they'll be a bit quicker than 6.3. I pointed out the vast differences possible from two sources in acceleration times due to conditions, drivers, and launch methods being different.
 
My personal bet is 5.6-6.0 sec. The 240hp 2003 Accord coupe with a 6MT ran it in 5.9.
 
I think a mid-upper 5sec time is reasonable if a 5.1 second time can come from a 306hp 3500lb Lexus IS350 from C&D.

#7224 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [thegraduate] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (4:01 pm)

Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 12, 2007 3:50 pm)
yeah, 12hp/lb. is in a different category than even the 13-14 for the other 'quick' cars of this group. However, 5.1 for the IS?? Consider the source - C&D....

#7225 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [captain2] by zzzoom6

Nov 12, 2007 (4:02 pm)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 12, 2007 3:39 pm)
bottom line: getting from 0-60 in 6 and change seconds is plenty fast for a family car and can be very entertaining especially if one is inclined to have fun when driving. dog the engine in the Mazda6 all you like, but those who have reviewed the Mazda6 in car mags tend to find the car very entertaining and quite comfortable. And with the prices available on this car, it is a great value. I saw an ad last week for a Mazda6 w/ a v-6 and an automatic for 17k...
 
Having driven the Mazdaspeed6, more power would be a welcome addition to the 6 as the chassis has so much grip, it could handle more power without problems. But after taking the Speed6 around some familiar roads that are twisty, I came to the conclusion that yeah, the Speed6 was quicker, but the v-6 in my car was still very fun and I loved the utility of the hatchback design that I could not get in any other car in this segment including the Speed6 so I contentedly walked away from a great deal from the dealership on the Speed6. Who says you need 260+ HP in a car to be considered fun to drive or safe... this whole line of reasoning is just a strawman argument: making a big deal out of something that is really not that important. Especially when you remember that there is a Mazda6 that has more power... the Mazdaspeed6. And I bet you can get this car for less than a v-6 Accord w/ a manual transmission.

#7226 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [zzzoom6] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (4:08 pm)

Replying to: zzzoom6 (Nov 12, 2007 4:02 pm)
and there would be those that contend that 0-60 in 8 something with a 170hp 4 banger is plenty fast enough as well - and relative to those cars available to us even 10 short years ago - those that would say that are absolutely right!

#7227 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [thegraduate] by zzzoom6

Nov 12, 2007 (4:14 pm)

Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 12, 2007 3:50 pm)
the graduate writes: Quit putting words in my mouth zzzoom6.
 
the graduate "imposter" also wrote: you really need to take into account Edmunds' tendencies to get times slower by around one second to 60 MPH.
 
no, I'm just putting your words back in your mouth. ok, you did say "tendencies" which gives you some wiggle room, but I just took your argument to it's extreme which I'll admit is a bit unfair.
 
Actually I was surprised that the Altima and Accord didn't break into the 5's so you're probably right. But the argument that you need a car to have 0-60 times in the 5's or even 6's to be safe or to be able to have fun is ridiculous. Yes, the Mazda6 v-6 engine is less powerful than most v-6's in this segment, but it is still fun, safe, and fast (relatively of course... maybe I should say faster than 90% of the cars on the road anyway).

#7228 of 18205 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [zzzoom6] by aviboy97

Nov 12, 2007 (4:49 pm)

Replying to: zzzoom6 (Nov 12, 2007 4:02 pm)
Especially when you remember that there is a Mazda6 that has more power... the Mazdaspeed6. And I bet you can get this car for less than a v-6 Accord w/ a manual transmission.
 
Good point. Even though the MS6 has been discontinued for now, it is still on sale, as there are a few still out there.

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