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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18437 messages,  Last post on Jun 19, 2013 at 6:38 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 719 of 1845

#7175 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [captain2] by aviboy97

Nov 12, 2007 (9:31 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 12, 2007 8:00 am)
As far as Ford's 'new and improved' 3.5 or 3.7, yes the HP would certainly solve the problem, but WHY didn't Mazda do this at the same time they are discontinuing the 270hp Speed6 - or is this simply a case of 'Fordspeak' at its best?
 
Originally, the new Mazda6 was supposed to be a 2008, but, Mazda pushed back the launch date here in NA. The new Mazda6 is out in Europe and Japan. The Speed6 was only slated for a 2yr-12,000 unit production run. Since the Speed6 was also built in Japan, in the same factory in Hofu that is now building the new Mazda6 for Japan and Europe, Mazda cannot continue to build it, for they no longer produce that body style. Many think, Mazda will introduce a new Mazdaspeed6 once they finalize r&d. But, for now, they are concentrated on the regular production Mazda6, in which, according to Mazda, this is very big for them for it's showing the "evolution" of the first car to emphasize the "zoom-zoom" philosophy.

#7176 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [aviboy97] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (9:57 am)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Nov 12, 2007 9:31 am)
Originally, the new Mazda6 was supposed to be a 2008, but, Mazda pushed back the launch date here in NA. I undertsand your point about The new Mazda6 is out in Europe and Japan.
Hmm - 'supposed to' and 'pushed a launch date back', etc. etc. Is this Mazda speak or Ford speak?. Correct me if I'm wrong - The 'good' V6s (in the 6) are not available anywhere yet (in Europe Japan or the US), true? And nobody knows yet what's going to happen to the poor Fusion (engine wise), true? Why should I believe Mazda/Ford when they can't seem to do anything they promise (except close plants) , I believe the HP deficit in the Fusion was 'promised' to be fixed for the 2008 MY, true?

#7177 of 18437 Re: Intellichoice garbage again???? [captain2] by jeffyscott

Nov 12, 2007 (10:04 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 12, 2007 8:51 am)
Sorry, but no. Intellichoice has target price of $19,320 and depreciation at $11,232 leaving resale of $8088. If you take another $2744 off of that it would be $5344. You are not going to buy a 5 year old Mazda6 in good condition with a normal amount of miles on it for $5344, the $8088 looks to be pretty close to reality.
 
The 2007 Mazda6 had a $2000 rebate pretty much right from the start (as of November 2006). The rebates on the 2007 Mazda6 did not vary much at all throughout the sales year.

#7178 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [captain2] by jeffyscott

Nov 12, 2007 (10:06 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 12, 2007 9:57 am)
The Mazda6 never had a V6 available anywhere but in the US.

#7179 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [lilengineerboy] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (10:10 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Nov 11, 2007 8:22 pm)
I find having a car that can corner to be more rewarding than one that can go fast in a straight line
while I happen to agree with you, personally I would suggest to you that that 'straight line' capability is what most drivers will find more useful whether its passing a semi on a 2 lane or merging on the highway that happens to be moving at 80! That old DT engine does leave about 50hp on the table.

#7180 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [captain2] by aviboy97

Nov 12, 2007 (10:12 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 12, 2007 9:57 am)
Hmm - 'supposed to' and 'pushed a launch date back', etc. etc. Is this Mazda speak or Ford speak?.
 
Unsure. Could be a combo of both?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong - The 'good' V6s (in the 6) are not available anywhere yet (in Europe Japan or the US), true?
 
Only NA got the V6 in the Mazda6. Everywhere else in the world got 4cyl gas and diesel engines, or the 4 cyl turbo. North America will be the only region to get a V6 this time around as well. Remember, gas prices everywhere else in the world are 10 times worse then we have it here.
 
Rumor has it that the North American Mazda6 will also have Mazda's Active Torque-Split AWD system, as late availability.
 
Why should I believe Mazda/Ford when they can't seem to do anything they promise (except close plants)
 
What has Mazda promised that was not delivered? What plants has Mazda closed? You keep forgetting that Mazda does run their company differently then Ford does. They have two different CEO's, they are two different companies. They are not the same. Saying they are states ignorance.
 
 I believe the HP deficit in the Fusion was 'promised' to be fixed for the 2008 MY, true?
 
I never heard that. What does the Fusion have to do with the upcoming Mazda6?

#7181 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [jeffyscott] by captain2

Nov 12, 2007 (10:23 am)

Replying to: jeffyscott (Nov 12, 2007 10:06 am)
exactly - so the original poster can talk all about 'the new 6 available in Europe and Japan' but it is still an underpowered vehicle relative to what is available in THIS country meaning V6s. Ever since the MX5/Probe days back in the late 80s and early 90s the Mazdas have always had 'Ford' Vulcan and DT V6s - something that I contend has hurt the Mazda6 ( and 626) in the showrooms. It sure has kept me away.

#7182 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [captain2] by akirby

Nov 12, 2007 (10:41 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 12, 2007 9:57 am)
I believe the HP deficit in the Fusion was 'promised' to be fixed for the 2008 MY, true?
 
The Fusion was never targeted for any new regular engines for 2008. The hybrid was targeted for the 08 model year when it debuted 2 years ago but that got pushed back to 09 (next fall).
 
While Ford has had a history of delayed product launches and being slow to market, a lot of the current delays are a direct result of improved management reversing earlier bad decisions.
 
As an example, the 09 Fusion was supposed to get an improved 3.0L engine instead of the 3.5L due to supply issues. It has now been confirmed that the 3.5L engine program will be accelerated (more plants converted sooner) and the 3.0L improved engine has been all but cancelled (except maybe for the Escape). This may delay things a bit but the end result will be right.
 
You can't expect Ford's new management to fix 10 years of mismanagement in just over a year.

#7183 of 18437 Re: Lighter cars - Sustainable Zoom Zoom [akirby] by baggs32

Nov 12, 2007 (10:49 am)

Replying to: akirby (Nov 12, 2007 10:41 am)
I agree with akirby on this one. I think I was the one who originally reported the rumor of the PIP Duratec30 being slated for the Fusion and Escape. That has since changed and sources on other forums are confirming the D35 for the Fusion in '09 along with a facelift and new interior (Still the PIP D30 for the Escape though as the D35 does not fit apparently). Other engine choices for '09 that are being thrown around include the new 2.5L I4 and a TwinForce I4 making near 280 HP with excellent FE. Those engines along with the gen II hybrid system and the D35 do give the consumers a lot to choose from when shopping for a Fusion.
 
I'm not sure why they would offer the TF in anything but an SVT though. Seems like it would steal sales from the D35 copies as it should have more power and better FE than the V6.

#7184 of 18437 Powerful Debate by robertsmx

Nov 12, 2007 (10:52 am)

While folks like to talk endlessly about V6 which makes for a fine marketing statement, the reality lies with success of I-4 power. That fact has long been ignored by GM, Ford and Chrysler.
 
But there appears to be an end in sight. For the first time, GM seems to be paying more respect to the power of four-cylinder engines, expecting more than half of Malibu to be equipped as such. I also remember reading that Aura will get the I-4 as well. Honda expects 50% of Accord sales to be EX/EX-L trim, then there are LX/LX-P trims. Clearly, V6 is expected to be a niche. Just see how many Camry V6 or Altima V6 you can spot on the road. Usually, if I-4 is good enough, people will overlook V6. Besides, saving an mpg or two won’t go out of fashion. In fact, it will be very much in fashion. Hence the rush to improve EPA ratings by hook or by crook (whether it all translates to reality, remains to be seen).

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