Last post on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:56 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
Nov 08, 2007 (4:57 pm)
A reporter seeks to talk with owners of the 2007 or 2008 Ford Fusion or Mercury Milan who are also parents of young children. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to jfallonedmunds.com no later than Thursday, November 15, 2007 and include your city and state of residence as well as the age of your child/ren.
Thanks for your consideration,
#7088 of 20241 Re: The New Malibu [andres3]
Nov 08, 2007 (7:31 pm)
now that most cars in this segment are very reliable, it's refreshing that I'm not married to a brand anymore and am willing to consider other options.
Where do you get that incorrect idea, impression, and opinion?
Consumer Reports and JD Powers data seem to confirm this. In Consumer Reports, the difference between below average and above average is usually less than 5 percentage points over a five year period. And JD Powers' Long Term Reliability data shows that the most reliable cars in this segment have around 2.5 problems over a 5 year period vs below average cars in this segment having around 3.7 problems. Not a big difference.
And why do you have to be so rude when you want to express yourself? I know you like Honda and their reputation for reliability despite your having to replace your transmission in your Accord. I've had two Accords so far and they have been good cars. Personally, I like Honda a lot.
But with two independent organizations coming to similar conclusions about the excellent reliability of the vast majority of cars in this segment allowed me to choose a car with traits that I prefer. For me it was having extra hauling capacity in a hatchback and superior braking performance in case emergencies crept up. I also wanted something comfortable that had a good amount of power and handling that could control this power. I wanted good safety ratings too. The Mazda6 had all these things and was several thousand dollars less than the Accord or Legacy GT that made my short list. And since I thought it looked much nicer and had more direct steering, it was an easy choice. When I first started looking, Mazda was nowhere on my cars under consideration list. But keeping an open mind about what cars I'd consider led me to my perfect choice and after nearly 2 years of ownership I couldn't be happier with my decision.
Here's another pic of my car:
#7089 of 20241 Re: Accord diesel for 2009 [captain2]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:30 pm)
Hey guys, let's put a sock in it. Just agree to disagree. I'm getting tired of reading page after page of you 3 going at each other.
#7090 of 20241 Re: The New Malibu [pat]
Nov 09, 2007 (1:13 am)
As someone who enjoys Backy's posts, I don't know how anyone could read sarcasm into that--not that I don't enjoy sarcasm. .
Nov 09, 2007 (4:52 am)
In case this has any bearing on the subject, the 04 Explorer I had appeared to be a "reactive" type system. It would drive the rear wheels 100% of the time unless it detected some slip, at which point it would automatically engage four wheel drive.
That said, the system worked very well. I often tested it in slippery conditions such as on gravel or loose dirt, and on wet roads. From a dead standstill, going immediately to full WOT, the rear tires would chirp only very slightly before the front tires kicked in. I would say the system was able to detect slip, transfer power, and actually obtain additional traction all in well under one second.
I can see where this would be advantageous on a sedan as well.
#7092 of 20241 Re: Accord diesel for 2009 [robertsmx]
Nov 09, 2007 (5:38 am)
A few replies and then I'll let it drop.
It senses the steering angle, the throttle position and the engine speed. Based on various combinations of those inputs it knows if you're going straight or turning, accelerating or decelerating, etc. When it sees some combination of these conditions that could possibly cause slip (accelerating quickly, accelerating while turning, turning at high speed, etc.) it kicks some torque to the rear wheels JUST IN CASE. In addition to preventing POSSIBLE slip it also helps with handling.
I don't understand why that concept is so hard for you to understand. It's common sense.
#7093 of 20241 Re: Accord diesel for 2009 [elroy5]
Nov 09, 2007 (5:41 am)
Just saying the system PREDICTS slip, gives the impression that it can detect an "Ice patch" on the road ahead of you, and engage the rear wheels.
That's because nobody in their right mind would think that a car could do such a thing in the first place and would not interpret that from the press release wording.
It works as advertised - let's move on.
#7094 of 20241 Re: The New Malibu [zzzoom6]
Nov 09, 2007 (7:24 am)
Nice look'n car!! Mazda sure does a great job with their wheels. . . those are cool!
Nov 09, 2007 (8:24 am)
Let me recap. The discussion on AWD started with a point around its impact on fuel economy. It included my opinion on varying degree of impact based on how the AWD system works, and that permanent AWD systems (all wheels powered at all times) affect more than AWD system with a little pro-activeness built (all wheels engage under certain conditions that donít wait for slippage to occur). This in turn has greater effect than completely reactive system (all wheels engage only when slip is detected).
Our argument is around whether Fusionís AWD system has a bit of pro-activeness that it will engage all wheels under non-slip conditions which is something youíre suggesting. My understanding based on articles (including the one you provided) is that it is a completely reactive system.
You did claim something that would put an AWD system in the middle category:
ďSlip is most likely to occur when accelerating briskly or when cornering. Doesn't mean that it will occur - just that it's possible or even likely depending the road conditions. Ford's AWD software senses one or both of those conditions and sends torque to the rear to AVOID a potential slip situation.Ē
The question remains, does the system being discussed do that? Does it always engage all wheels when turning, regardless of traction? Would it engage if the wheel speed sensors didnít notice any change while considering steering angle? Those will make it more like Acuraís SH-AWD system which (while permanent) will redistribute torque by default and doesnít wait for slippage. I havenít seen any such claim from Ford.
Besides, virtually all AWD system use some form of yaw, speed and throttle sensors to make it work.
#7096 of 20241 Re: AWD [robertsmx]
Nov 09, 2007 (8:44 am)
I don't understand why you can't comprehend what the Ford article is saying.
It sends torque to the rear BEFORE any slip is actually detected in an attempt to both prevent slip from occurring AND to improve handling. So yes, if you're accelerating around a corner it will shift torque to the rear - period. It does sound very much like Honda's SH-AWD but I don't think it's quite as sophisticated.
I've posted the relevant quotes from the press release that say EXACTLY that. If you don't understand them or choose to think they're lying then fine. End of discussion.