Last post on Dec 07, 2013 at 8:35 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6792 of 20215 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [backy]
Oct 27, 2007 (8:55 pm)
Backy: GM has nowhere to go but up but it is true the Caddy CTS is stunning inside and the Buick Enclave is gorgeous. The new Malibu interior was too cheap looking and feeling. I was dissapointed. The Mazda CX-9 is stunning inside. You are right about Hyundai as well.
Having owned a 2005 Camry, the minute I sat in the 2007 at the dealership I could tell in 5 seconds they cheapened it all over the place. The salesguy claimed Lexus complained that the top line Camry was stealing ES sales. Whatever the reason it still boggles my mind how people run to Toyota to A)trade in their current Camry for the new one and B)pay practically MSRP for it without noticing or caring about all the cheapness inside.
The Ford Fusion and Nissan Altima use better material inside than the new Camry.
#6793 of 20215 Is bigger...bloated?
Oct 27, 2007 (10:15 pm)
The northwest has many endearing qualities, but sunny fall weekends are few and far between. So with the sun out and many trees' leaves dressed in fall colors, I thought it would be well worth driving through the Columbia River Gorge with it's amazing waterfalls and scenic views connected with miles of twisty roads and loads of elevation changes. Unfortunately though, much of the old Historic Columbia River Highway is very narrow with the some sections having just a dividing line on one side and barely the width of midsize car away is a concrete wall.
When going around a series of 20mph curves it occurred to me that I was lucky to have a car that had very precise steering and one that wasn't too wide. Having a large car or SUV would have made the drive not the joy that it was in the Mazda6 but instead an effort at accident avoidance. I know the trend is set that cars in this class will continue to get bigger in width and length and often in weight, but I can't help but think that maybe some cars are moving past what is necessary or needed to a size that is bloated and just an effort to achieve bragging rights.
#6794 of 20215 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [pmerk28]
Oct 27, 2007 (10:53 pm)
"Only Nissan seems to have gotten better across the board."
Perhaps, but only because they had a lot of room for improvement.
When it comes to interior fit and finish it still comes down to VW, then Honda and then the rest.
I got to say it cracks me up when I read that someone's 1988 Accord interior is better in some way then today's Accord. I've owned Accords from that period and their interiors were top notch for the day but by today's standards they're pretty dreadful. I can guarantee you that after a 4 hour trip your back is going to feel much better in a 2008 Accord then a 1998 Accord.
One area where all the car manufacturers seem to be cutting cost is the protective moldings on the side of the car.
At least Audi seems to be keeping to their expected standards.
#6795 of 20215 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [robertsmx]
Oct 28, 2007 (7:02 am)
I have seen several people complain about Camry being favored by CR as they recommend even the new model by default. That doesn’t seem to be an issue with Focus being recommended when it first came out.
I think this has been clarified by others already. The Focus had the highest score in their testing, this has nothing to do with reliability. On the pricing I was talking about the actual net transaction prices, not artificial figures like MSRP. By your own numbers Fit is comparably priced to Focus, since the rebate exceeds to $2000 price differential that you came up with. so far the Fusion has not required large incentives, but still selling prices are, I think, closer to the civic than to the Accord. Will the lower prices for comparable cars mean that Ford can still not afford to invest as much in upgrading the Fusion as Toyota and Honda can for the Accord and Camry???
BTW, you mentioned somewhere not subscribing to CR, I don't either, my library provides free online access (available from home with my library card number) to CR as well as hundreds of other magazines. In the case of CR there is a 3 month embargo. Check your library website, if my library that serves a population of only about 20,000 provides this access, I'm sure many others do also.
#6796 of 20215 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [jeffyscott]
Oct 28, 2007 (7:39 am)
Ford can still not afford to invest as much in upgrading the Fusion
I have read that there will be a hybrid Fusion in 2008,but I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to find one at a dealer showroom.
#6797 of 20215 Re: Is bigger...bloated? [zzzoom6]
Oct 28, 2007 (7:51 am)
Many sports cars are wider than one would thing they need to be. Corvette is 72.6", that might be comparable to many full size cars. And the new Nissan GT-R is supposed to be 2" wider! Thats SUV territory. Somehow I feel that carving those roads won't be bigger issue in those cars.
Its not the size, rather how cars drive. Some big cars drive small, and some small cars feel bigger than they are. This goes beyond spec sheet.
#6798 of 20215 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [backy]
Oct 28, 2007 (8:25 am)
You said you were concerned about reliability (wrt the Korean cars). Have you taken a look at the reliability record of the 2.0T? For example, CR won't even recommend it because of poor reliability.
true, sadly, CR recommended the Camry, which I rented from Alamo. I drove it from STL to chicago, along the way, low tire pressure light came on, then off, then on, then off... Engine light came on for about 15 mins along the way. And my favorite feature would easily be the gasoline air refresher that they installed in the car. Revs go above 3000 and the refresher kicks in. For those of you who didnt pick up on the sarcasm. When you go to pass someone and the revs go above 3000 a very big whiff of gasoline scent tingles your nose hairs.
After that, i stopped listening to CR and the like. I'll read them and take it for what they are, words. Honestly though, before you buy a car go rent it. Pay the 100 bucks or 200 bucks to rent it for 3 or 4 days, it's the ultimate test drive you can see how the car takes abuse (everyone abuses rentals), you can push it to the limits, etc.
I had the Mazda 6 for a week while my car was getting fixed, someone decided they wanted to use my corolla's front left bumper to stop them rather than their brakes. I believe it was an 80's caprice, huge metal bumper, tore right through my poor little corolla's front fender/bodypanel. Back to the mazda. I did like the dash, was made from the "BMW dash" material. Nothing felt "cheap" but nothing felt expensive, and the car felt sluggish and the precise steering didn't help speed the car up so i found that useless. What i hated the most was the material used on the doors. Mazda used like a cloth mixed with rubber...it wasn't like the VW fake leather but its more rubbery and clothy?(sp). Im not sure how to describe it but it was soft to the touch but irritating to my arm.
On a slightly different note, i owned a 1989 toyota corolla, tranny went bad in the first 30 days but the replacement lasted 230k miles. I never changed the timing belt or anything else but oil, air filter and brakes. At 230k miles, my car was stolen and crashed into the back of a truck. So it led me to buy a new car, a corolla. I wasn't a fan of the interior but if it was gonna last as long as the old one, i wouldn't mind. At 63k miles my dealership said my tranny was bad. They didn't catch the problem when i was still under warranty...odd. It was going to cost $5k to repair a $15k so i decided not to. My car is now at 140k miles, its an 03 corolla and compared to my 89, its interior quality went down, doesn't feel nearly as fast as the old one, 89 blew colder air, was easier to see out of, had better paint, better seats, cheaper tires (25 bucks a tire!)...come to think about it my new corolla doesnt have anything different from my old one (on the center stack). 89 and 03 both have radio's, air con, defroster etc, clock, no CD player in the 89 or fancy stero. Well, atleast the new one still runs.
#6799 of 20215 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [pmerk28]
Oct 28, 2007 (10:30 am)
Whatever the reason it still boggles my mind how people run to Toyota to A)trade in their current Camry for the new one and B)pay practically MSRP for it without noticing or caring about all the cheapness inside.
People do seem to make rash and speedy purchase decisions without even comparing or researching any facts, figures, or vehicles. They just see something they like (the 1st car they look at) and are willing to get it, because undoubtedly a brand new car will most likely be much better than their old one.
If their last Toyota was their first car to be absolutely flawless and a perfect ownership experience, then of course they'll go back and get another.
No one besides Toyota and Honda have been able to retain the amount of customers they do due to quality.
#6800 of 20215 Re: Appliances [lilengineerboy]
Oct 28, 2007 (10:33 am)
"I just don't understand why they are so afraid of people knowing there is an engine in the front of the vehicle ..."
Sorry, but I don't understand why people are so afraid of a "quiet engine". It obviously isn't necessary to have a noisy one. I know that any engine, when pushed, will make more "noise" than one at a nominal speed. I find no problem with that, however many seem to object to those that prefer the lessor sound. I enjoy being able to converse with my fellow travelers, or to enjoy the sound of the music without having to scream, or turn the volume up extra loud. This is one of those areas where each of us has to decide for ourselves.
#6801 of 20215 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [pengwin]
Oct 28, 2007 (11:31 am)
Honestly though, before you buy a car go rent it.
Good advice. I've learned a lot about potential car purchases by driving them as rentals. I'm fortunate to be able to drive many rentals at the expense of my employer though.