Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:10 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6777 of 20238 Re: Appliances [robertsmx]
Oct 26, 2007 (7:07 pm)
Again, those very same points were made ten years ago too. If you look closely, now and in the past (pick any period), Accord has never been at the top in anything except ownership cost, engine quality, ergonomics and may be dependability.
Actually, the Accord had quite a bit of value compared to it's peers at one point. It really had a quality advantage that many other cars did not have maybe 10-15 years ago. But now that Consumer Reports and Jd Powers have shown that the difference in problems over 5 years for most of the cars in this class is around 1 additional problem from the most reliable to the least, that advantage is gone. And at the same time, initial purchase price being thousands more than many competitors with quality just as good to the Accord and in some cases better, Honda no longer has the advantage it once had. Yes, it is still a very good car and one that I would consider if I were in the market.... but I'd have to agree with those who have pointed out that the Accord seems to have softened in the current generation and that is a change I don't welcome.
Accord's handling hidden are those of a car that doesn't scream handling on first glance. It is there, if you know and want to use it. I don't have much experience with 2003-2007 Accord, however (and none with 2008) but enough to know it still maintains those attributes.
While I think the 03-07 Accord had decent handling compared to the previous gen Altima and Sonata, compared to the Legacy and Mazda6 it is not nearly as connected without increasing ride quality by a similar amount. Steering feel of the v-6 coupe I test drove was nowhere near as direct or confidence inspiring as the Subaru or Mazda. And why you're talking about your 98 Honda's handling in this forum (which is about new cars last I checked) doesn't make sense to me. Should I talk about my 81 Accord and make a point about how underpowered and unsafe it was?
#6778 of 20238 Re: Appliances [zzzoom6]
Oct 26, 2007 (8:22 pm)
Completely agree with zzzoom6. Competition is has caught up and now there are many winners to choose from.
Obviously your opinion of the Aura is that, just an opinion. Steering is very direct with a nice weighted feel, not light and over boosted like my old Accord. Handling is very good while being compliant over bumps. It won Car of the Year and beat out the Camry SE in the Autoweek comparo for many reasons. Seems like the Aura has proven itself to a great deal of auto enthusiasts to me.
And seriously, this discussion is about current midsize cars. The reviews related to this discussion point to the current model year of each midsize car. If your stuck in a time warp that's fine but can we stick to the topic? It's like having someone compare an old E36 BMW to all the new luxury sports sedans in the market and saying how much better it is. Who does that?
Oct 26, 2007 (9:00 pm)
i bought a '07 mazda 6 4 cyl, man trans. Before I bought I drove the civic, altima, and camry, figuring they were all contenders. Now I'm somewhat prejudiced since I had a '97 mazda 626 with 150,000 mi and no maintenance other than routine. The 6 is pretty nimble and with the man trans pretty quick(or seems that way). For the price I think it has the most bang for your buck.
#6780 of 20238 Re: mid size cars [oldcoastie]
Oct 27, 2007 (8:40 am)
I'm curious, why did you look at the Civic vs. the Accord, when all the other cars you looked at were mid-sized? Plus there are/were real good deals available on the '07 Accords now.
#6781 of 20238 Re: Appliances [chrono]
Oct 27, 2007 (10:21 am)
The Accord is not so far ahead of the pack anymore. Actually looks like it's trying to keep up.
You're basing that on that one article. What about all the other road tests that say the Accord is still the target to shoot for? The Aura couldn't even best the last Accord in C/D's last comparison test. I don't see Mr. Phelan being any more influential than the enthusiasts at C/D.
Sales of the Aura are disappointing. Just because you went from an Accord to an Aura doesn't prove anything.
I happen to test drive an Aura when I had my Audi in for service. I don't understand what all the hoopla is with this car; not only was it a big disappointment compared to my Audi, it was even one compared to my last Accord.
Hey, you like the Aura and that's great.
#6782 of 20238 Re: Appliances [chrono]
Oct 27, 2007 (11:08 am)
Obviously your opinion of the Aura is that, just an opinion. Steering is very direct with a nice weighted feel, not light and over boosted like my old Accord.
Really? IMO, Aura's steering is one of its shortcomings. And which generation of Accord are you talking about that has, apparently, overboosted steering? Based on my experience, Aura is Pontiac G6 with additional frills/aesthetic fixes, much like Milan is to Fusion. The only thing I like about in Aura is its auto transmission, and it could use better (real world) fuel economy.
#6783 of 20238 Re: Appliances [robertsmx]
Oct 27, 2007 (2:46 pm)
Gm is known for rebadges but the Aura is FAAR more than an additional thrills/ aestetic fix over the G6. While they may share the same platform, they are far far more different the the Milan/Fusion or even the Milan/Fusion vs. the MKZ.
that's like saying the Accord and Acura TL are the same outside of aestheic fixe/additional frills.
The Aura is a far better and more refined car than the G6 is.
#6784 of 20238 What so special about these "top rated" cars?
Oct 27, 2007 (4:07 pm)
here's my 2 cents.
I have a 1994 maxima GXE (amazing car). I go out of town once in a while and i get a rental (my car isn't in the best of shape). Few weeks back, i got the saturn aura, picked it out just because there's soo much commotion about it, "best car from saturn yet", "north American car of the year (even though it's essentially European)". Any who, i took the saturn. Instantly found the seats to be hard, and the dash was made from what felt like melted down action figures. Absolutely terrible. If you don't believe me go to the saturn dealership and try it yourself. Maybe the seat is better for some of you but the dash and interior quality in general is pretty bad, just give the dash a slight tap with your nails. Its pretty sad if the aura is saturns "best car yet". I don't want to see what they made before. With that said, the aura did handle very nicely, but at the same time, im not going to a track, I'll take comfort over handling in a mid sized sedan.
Two weeks ago i took a camry (very easy choice after the aura). The seats were wayy better than the aura's and initially i thought the car was pretty good. I saw why the camry is the best selling car in the US. So after about an hour in the car i started to fiddle with all the things. The more i fiddle the less impressed i was. The center stack was misaligned, plastics didn't feel that good, center stack felt like the plastic from a box of valentine chocolates. Overall, still felt very cheap, very cost cutting, not quite as much as the aura though. I even noticed the carpeting coming off the floor of the car, i could see the wiring and chassis. This car was motor trends "car of the year" This car had ~4k miles on it. Very disappointing.
For those who have never sat in a 94 maxima GXE, find one and sit in it, feel the dash, feel the materials. My dash is literally as soft as a baby's butt. The steering wheel has actual leather with real stitching on it.
edit: just thought about it and my 03 corolla has more rock scratches than my 94 maxima. the front hood of my 03 corolla has lots of tiny scratches from rocks that go all the way down to the actual hood. what has happened to paint? Frankly, I'll take an extra 2 or 3 layers even if my MPG drops a little due to the weight of the extra paint...seriously. New cars are disappointing.
Where have cars interiors gone? I mean....do i need to buy a premium brand to get the luxury of a 14 year old nissan?
my second thought is more or less a question. The camry is now off my list, so is the aura/new malibu. How is the passat and the new accord? anyone have either of the cars and wanna shoot me some feed back about quality of the materials/comfort/etc.
#6785 of 20238 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [pengwin]
Oct 27, 2007 (4:46 pm)
Where have cars interiors gone?
Cost cutting. Automakers are under extreme price pressure. That's why you don't see things like soft-touch materials everywhere any more. But to be fair, I think the automakers are trying their best to put the money into the important things on a car. For example, all those airbags cost money. So do high-powered, efficient, low-emissions engines. (How much power does that Maxima of yours put out? I'll bet there's some I4s in the mid-sized class today that would top it, or come close. And what's its fuel economy, and emissions?) When you think about it, how often do you touch the dashboard--except to find out if it's padded?
Even the new Accord has a lot of hard plastic in it--less so as you move up the trim lines. But it's quality plastic, for this class of cars. I think the Passat has a very nice interior for this class (VW does interiors well in general), but it's also one of the most expensive cars in this class, if not the most expensive. So it should have a great interior. If you're looking at a car like the Passat, you can afford to look one class up, e.g. Avalon, Azera, Lucerne, Taurus/Sable. Or maybe a slightly used luxury sedan?
As for paint, the automakers are using water-based paint now (less pollution), and that might partly account for the drop in paint quality. And of course, thinner paint means lower cost.
#6786 of 20238 Re: What so special about these "top rated" cars? [backy]
Oct 27, 2007 (5:43 pm)
i agree with you but cost cutting has its limits. misaligned interior bits? thats just crappy craftsmanship. also im fine with a hard dash, but make the areas where i rest my elbow/arm softer than the rest of the car. and how about a steering wheel not covered with hard plastic? how much more can those minor additions cost? i'll pay an extra 100-200 bucks for it. i understand cost cutting if its in a kia rio. but if im paying in the neighborhood of 20,000 i'd like the car to be built decently.
avalon is a little too big and ugly, looks like a whale, massive overhang. also the avalon is closer to 30k than 20k. still skeptical on hyundai/kia's. No good long term info on them. I can get a VW 2.0T for 22ish, a well equipped accord is 22ish too.
as i see it, the same thing that happened to American brands is happening to Japanese brands. GM and ford used to make properly great cars like the 72 monte carlo (i had one and loved it). They mass produced cars and quality and reliability suffered. At the same time the Japanese slowly nudged into the market. Americans couldn't turn around fast enough and have always been behind the Japanese. With the new CTS and the upcoming G8 i can see some turn around happening. But until interior quality gets better americans wont flock to GM and ford dealerships like they do to honda and toyota's
now people say "if we up quality we won't make a profit". subject A. Chevrolet Impala. Rebate: $4700 (friend of mine bought one for 17,xxx). Get rid of the 4700 dollar rebate and use it to build a car with newer technologies, better looking and feeling interior, more powerful engine.
GM and ford are huge companies and if they cant make cars that are at the same level of quality as a toyota or honda. Here's and idea GM has like 18 brands, if they start cutting those 18 down to maybe....2. A mainstream brand and a premium brand they'd save money and they could concentrate on making a decent car. instead they choose to use the same car for 4 brands and spend all their money on making it look different.