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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13329 messages,  Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 7:39 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan


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#6710 of 13329
Re: JD Powers study and data [robertsmx] by zzzoom6
Oct 24, 2007 (10:19 pm)
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Replying to: robertsmx (Oct 24, 2007 1:57 pm)

My problem with vague symbols like stars or colored circles is that it overstates what are really pretty close values. When JD Power released long term reliability data, the # of probs over a multi year period for the best rated vehicles was around 3 and around 4 for the below average vehicles. Consumer reports showed similar data as well... the difference between their top rating and below average rating was often just a few percent over a five year period. I would suggest that it's in consumer reports and JD powers interest to make the differences seem more than what they really are so that the data is more dramatic which would compell more people to look at their conclusions thus buying more of their product/subscriptions.
#6711 of 13329
Beyond silly Sable vs Taurus ratings, CR by ronin5
Oct 25, 2007 (3:14 am)
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They just admitted that they have been letting Camry skate based on past experience. They think now that the Camry no longer rates an automatic pass.
 
Which I interpret to mean that up until recently they have been giving high ratings to a model that they now admit does not deserve it. Which means they have misled their leadership for the past few years.
 
What they need to do now is fess up and say which other models they are predicting high, or for that matter, low, ratings based on past glory, but have no empirical evidence either way.
 
It's nice that CR admits its error in misleading its subscribers; it's funnier that people still accept CR as gospel.
#6712 of 13329
Just throwing this out there by thegraduate
Oct 25, 2007 (6:51 am)
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I've been price shopping the new Taurus for my grandmother... Out the door prices come to $22k. I dare ya to find that on a V6 Accord or Camry right now!
 
Just something to keep in mind; there are other value leaders besides Hyundai.
#6713 of 13329
Re: Just throwing this out there [thegraduate] by backy
Oct 25, 2007 (7:07 am)
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Replying to: thegraduate (Oct 25, 2007 6:51 am)

Yes, I saw a new Lucerne advertised for $21k the other day, and Azera SEs can be had for that also. Fusion V6s start at around $20k (discounted), and of course there's the Optima. Several good choices for value in this class if the Camcordma is too pricey and something else meets your needs.
#6714 of 13329
Re: Beyond silly Sable vs Taurus ratings, CR [ronin5] by imidazol97
Oct 25, 2007 (7:07 am)
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Replying to: ronin5 (Oct 25, 2007 3:14 am)

>It's nice that CR admits its error in misleading its subscribers;
 
CR should have admitted its bias much earlier.
 
>it's funnier that people still accept CR as gospel
 
And they did just that and some always will. There's even a topic here about CR.
#6715 of 13329
Re: JD Powers study and data [zzzoom6] by robertsmx
Oct 25, 2007 (7:09 am)
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Replying to: zzzoom6 (Oct 24, 2007 10:19 pm)

I agree. There may (or may not) be big difference between a 4-star versus 5, or above average versus good. In fact, in some cases (as I pointed out about NHTSA's star rating system, a few days ago) that it could be the opposite. But I would pay closer attention to difference between 3-star and 5-star (or colors, if they apply).
#6716 of 13329
Re: Beyond silly Sable vs Taurus ratings, CR [ronin5] by robertsmx
Oct 25, 2007 (7:15 am)
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Replying to: ronin5 (Oct 25, 2007 3:14 am)

One could choose to ignore predicted reliability and simply look for reliability from the past. In case of Camry, the prediction is based on the car's and the company's past. I don't see an issue with it. Predicted reliability will always be... prediction, not a guarantee. See what happened with Focus. It had a high predicted reliability when it first arrived, right? So, it is not something that Toyota gets.
 
One could argue that predicted reliability should be simply taken off the print. What is the point anyway? In fact, why even bother with reliability of "new" cars? It only makes sense in used car market, because for new cars, even based on same design, prediction is just that, looking at the crystal ball with the past behind it. It doesn't guarantee replication or improvement.
#6717 of 13329
Re: Just throwing this out there [backy] by thegraduate
Oct 25, 2007 (7:29 am)
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Replying to: backy (Oct 25, 2007 7:07 am)

That's the key; her needs are obviously very different than mine (I enjoy the driving process, being 20 I don't go in search of the quietest smoothest ride). I also don't have a predetermined good repoire with Ford vehicles like she does (she likes Fords as a whole).
 
My grandmother drove Ford most of her life (starting with a Fairlane, had a Torino, Granada, and an '84 LTD (the Fairmont-based one). After that, she bought a '91 Civic which she loved, and replaced it with a '96 Accord (now my car), and followed that one up with her current 2002 Accord). Now that Honda is getting expensive yet cheaper with the Accord, I'm trying to guide her back to Ford. Her last two Accords have been LX 4-cyl Auto models. She doesn't care for frills; she won't learn how to use them! An LX 4-cylinder Accord is now the same price as a Taurus, which supposedly a better riding car, with 80+ more power, and a much smoother ride. She's not a driving enthusiast (she's 72) so the whole Honda "handling" premise doesn't matter to her.
#6718 of 13329
Re: Just throwing this out there [thegraduate] by lilengineerboy
Oct 25, 2007 (7:34 am)
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Replying to: thegraduate (Oct 25, 2007 7:29 am)

She's not a driving enthusiast (she's 72) so the whole Honda "handling" premise doesn't matter to her.
 
She might find a smaller car easier to maneuver and/or see. My grandma went from the biggest Pontiac I'd ever seen to a Camry in the 80s and my other grandma went from a huge Buick to an early 90s Century. Even my grandpa went from a RWD Impala to a FWD Bonneville.
#6719 of 13329
Re: Just throwing this out there [lilengineerboy] by thegraduate
Oct 25, 2007 (7:38 am)
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 25, 2007 7:34 am)

I agree with that too. The only thing is it is easier for her to get in a car that's higher up. My aunt (who has an Odyssey and is pining for a CR-V - she thinks they are "the cutest thing!")wants her to test a CR-V. That may be a good idea.

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