Last post on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:56 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6697 of 20241 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [robertsmx]
Oct 24, 2007 (11:31 am)
I think people, from my interaction with them everyday at work, that many Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda buyers look at CR for reliability and quality before they look at JD Powers. From talking to a lot of people in the auto industry, connected to many different mfgr's, JD Powers is not really regarded as a great source for anything. They are more like a Car and Driver or Motor Trend.
What does "overall quality" really mean when CR or JD Powers places a "quality" label on vehicles they asses. Does it encompass the grade of materials? How they are put together? How long the car is going to last? Maybe a bit of all? Hmmm... I have personally noticed that the interior quality of materials in a Toyota Camry are low rent. Now, they are put together well. So, how does that score? Overall reliability seems to have seriously slipped as well. How does the Camry receive a 3 out of 5?
The previous generation Honda Accord also utilized numerous plastic components, as does most every mfgr, but, I noticed more plastic then some other brands (Hyundai/Mazda). Once again, these materials are put together very well. So, once again, is the build quality regarded higher then the actual materials used? The ride/comfort of the Honda Accord was nothing special either. Reliability has been top knotch for the most part, apart from the V6 tranny's.
I have the most experience in a Mazda6 (2005 Mazda6 i 5-Door w/leather/Bose/moon roof). There are once again, plastics used in the interior, but, not as much as the current Camry or 2003-2007 Accord. The build quality is not as tight, but, so so close to Accord/Camry. The ride has not changed since day 1, and I have had no issues to date (4 cyl Mazda6's have been rated well in reliability). What makes the Mazda6 score only 2 out of 5? Is is the sup par V6? How does the same V6 get rated high in the Fusion? It's the same engine! I have no idea. Dose the fact that many Mazda6's are fleet account for a low score. Fleet cars usually get the snot beat out of them. Once again, I have visited JD Powers web site and really do not understand their rating philosophy. I guess this is why I find them useless.
#6698 of 20241 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [jeffyscott]
Oct 24, 2007 (11:49 am)
Funny how the Century, Regal, and Sable got left out of the earlier listing by robertsmx: GM and Ford.
#6699 of 20241 JD Powers study and data
Oct 24, 2007 (11:53 am)
Remember that their information comes from random surveys of owners over three years.
Overall Dependability: Taken from the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 3 years of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).
Powertrain Dependability: Taken from the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 3 years of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with the engine or transmission as well as problems that affect the driving experience (i.e., vehicle/brakes pull, abnormal noises or vibrations) only.
Body & Interior Dependability: Taken from the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 3 years of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with wind noise, water leaks, poor interior fit/finish, paint imperfection, and squeaks/rattles.
Features & Accessories Dependability: Taken from the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 3 years of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with the seats, windshield wipers, navigation system, rear-seat entertainment system, heater, air conditioner, stereo system, sunroof and trip computer.
#6700 of 20241 Re: Best Midsize Car [moparbad]
Oct 24, 2007 (11:53 am)
I stand corrected. Some of the links to dependability won't respond so I clicked on "rankings by segment" and selected midsize, but didn't realize it was talking IQS.
Speaking of Buick, I think it benefits from the segment it caters to. I would also be interested to see average age of the buyers taking the surveys as well as miles driven to draw proper conclusions from any of these surveys. I have known folks who drive 5K miles or less/year. I drive that distance in two months.
#6701 of 20241 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [imidazol97]
Oct 24, 2007 (11:54 am)
Yeah, while "defending" a car that I can't see myself buying.
#6702 of 20241 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [jeffyscott]
Oct 24, 2007 (12:22 pm)
I mentioned Focus after Civic, and neither was to talk about size but to discuss approach automakers take. Obviously, you missed the point completely.
But in the process, you did mention something that relates to the topic. I have seen several people complain about Camry being favored by CR as they recommend even the new model by default. That doesnít seem to be an issue with Focus being recommended when it first came out. So I say, let recommendation be what it is. CR has as much a crystal ball as did Ms Cleo.
We could discuss pricing elsewhere, but since you brought it up, Focus is really priced above Fit and comparable to Civic. Equip base with ABS, automatic transmission, and youíre into $16.5K mark (Fit is about $2K cheaper). But market isnít willing to pay the price for it, and incentives/rebates are almost warranted. Could have been better, if Ford actually took care of its business properly when it was launched (which was quite a splash, actually). If they didnít learn from it, Fusionís future wonít be any different. As of now, it does look promising.
#6703 of 20241 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [aviboy97]
Oct 24, 2007 (12:31 pm)
While I quoted JD power and do look at CR ratings, I only take them for what they are. New buyers may not buy into Camry's reputation based on that, but for repeat buyers (or buyers with history based on experiencence from friends and family) those numbers don't tell the story.
I started with a used 1982 Supra-Celica. It held up well, virtually guaranteeing my next purchased to be a Toyota. I bought used 1988 Corolla GT-S coupe. It held up extremely well, sold at 138K miles and was still running around 168K miles with the guy who bought from me. And it was not only reliable, it was also a fun car to drive and a lot more stable at speed than the sedan.
This led to yet another used Toyota, 1992 Camry which I had until I decided to go Honda. Major reason for my switch was my driving experience, not ownership experience. The ownership experience led to me picking a Honda over VW (Passat), however. From one brand with reputation to another. Since then, I've been a Honda guy, not just based on reputation of the company but based in experience.
This is how companies begin to garner respect, build a customer base, and repeat buyers. My cars over last ten years:
1998 Accord (current, 183K miles)
1999 Prelude (sold for Civic)
2000 Civic (replaced by TL)
2006 TL (current, 30K miles)
Under consideration (to replace the Accord if there is a need):
It doesn't matter what JD Power or CR put on the survey. Those are simply fun numbers for me to look at. I don't put greater value on them over my ownership experience.
#6705 of 20241 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [robertsmx]
Oct 24, 2007 (1:05 pm)
It doesn't matter what JD Power or CR put on the survey. Those are simply fun numbers for me to look at. I don't put greater value on them over my ownership experience
That is the way I think of it too.
#6706 of 20241 Re: JD Powers study and data [georgia400]
Oct 24, 2007 (1:28 pm)
JD Power ratings are such a weak way to assess a car.
What is a better source of reliability information than JD Power?
Consumer Reports only survey's subscribers and is certainly not preferred to JD Power.