Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6555 of 20239 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [backy]
Oct 21, 2007 (8:01 pm)
Forget ME, if others cared, wouldn't a "most wanted" mainstream car actually sell better than Mazda6 does? Thru September 2006, Mazda had sold 52.5K units, and this year, the number is at 44K. What makes for a "most wanted" car? Is its "want" being limited by production? Or is it limited by demand? I would love for you to explain that, instead of trying to jump on my throat. Unless, most wanted is from fleet sales perspective (with 42.7% fleet sales based in 2007 mid-year registrations, Mazda6 happens to be one of the leaders).
It doesn't speak for the car itself but that is the reality, not an opinion (for that, see Edmunds, and a bunch of posts here, including yours). So, there is no need to be overly defensive.
#6556 of 20239 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [robertsmx]
Oct 21, 2007 (9:36 pm)
yup, you're sensitive (and no, I didn't mis-spell thankyouverymuch). I don't think backy was being defensive... he was just saying that since you can buy a Mazda6 in some markets for 6k off msrp, it is a really good value especially if the buyer likes a good handling midsize car. And because it is a very good value right now because of soft demand, more people than nobody, as you put it, would be willing to consider the car. It's not his fault you exaggerated a bit in your first post and he called you on it; that's not being defensive. Getting upset because you had to retract your statement is...
Personally, I think the problem of low sales #'s of the mazda6 has to do with bad marketing and not because the car is bad. The average buyer of a midsize sedan is probably older than where mazda's marketing is directed. I understand that mazda wants to target a young demographic (it currently has the second youngest buyer of it's cars compared to other brands - scion is the youngest) but I think a midsize sedan needs to be marketed as much more than zoom-zoom or a company with a successful racing heritage since I think most middle-aged buyers could care less about these things. Yes it's true many car enthusiasts would consider the mazda6 the zoomiest in this segment, but it's also very comfortable, very safe, and extremely practical which is rarely mentioned in mazda6 commercials. I think if Mazda wants it's sales of the 6 to reach it's potential, they really need to reconsider it's emphasis on zoom-zoom at the expense of the Mazda6's other desireable traits.
#6557 of 20239 Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [captain2]
Oct 21, 2007 (10:03 pm)
you know if you take lets say 4 cars, a Mazda6 DT V6, a Camry SE V6, an Accord SE V6, and lastly an Altima SE 3.5 and put all three on a road course (Lime Rock comes to mind) you will have a very hard time finding a course confining enough that the Mazda would'nt lose easily to the other three. Why - simply because it can not pick up enough in the corners to make up for what it loses coming out of them. I guess this is what 'zoom-zoom' is all about, or should I be allowing the Mazda extra points because it 'feels' the best being the slowest (in terms of lap times).
That may be true, I don't know really since I don't race cars for a living. But I do know that when I test drove these cars on streets, the Mazda6 surpassed the Accord and Altima in cornering grip, stopping power, and steering feel which are all important for maintaining control of your car. It's not the fastest in a straight line (the mazda6 v6 will do mid 6 second 0-60 where the cars you mention will do this in the low 6's) but it feels more connected when driving on the street. I'll leave race car driving to the pro's and when you find out who wins, let me know. You may also want to tell the SCCA Touring Car points leaders (both individual points leaders and manufacturer's points leaders) about your opinions too so that they quit refuting your "racing theories" by winning in their Mazda6's over cars that have more power than them
#6558 of 20239 Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [zzzoom6]
Oct 22, 2007 (4:36 am)
How much power do your really need to drive on the streets (which is where these cars will actually be driven), anyway?
In other markets the mazda6 does not even offer the V6. I just read a review that said of the european base 120bhp, 1.8 L I4... "it's fine for what it has to do". The full quote being:
The petrol engines are revvy and eager, and if the 1.8 feels as if it's been ballasted with concrete after the other two, which feel closer for performance, it's fine for what it has to do.
The "revy and eager" engines referred to are a 147bhp 2.0 and the new four-cylinder 2.5 with 170bhp, replacing the 164bhp 2.3. It's funny that these same engines would be called underpowered, slow, etc. here in the US.
BTW, anyone know what specific elements make the new styling Japanese rather than European?
#6559 of 20239 Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [jeffyscott]
Oct 22, 2007 (5:26 am)
understand that in Europe the car buyers expectations and values are different - by necessity. Displacement taxes and petrol prices make the 250hp+ V6 cars we enjoy here in this country impractical (and expensive) to drive. So therefore Mazda not offering a V6 overseas or the predominance of little more fuel efficient 4 bangers in not strange at all, as neither are those standards in relation to Hp which certainly means less and handling/braking which tends to mean more.
The Toyota Avalon is a US market car only made in the US, and is reasonably economical and would handle 130-140 mph autobahns just fine. It is also too large for the roads over there, definitely emphasizes ride over handling (not the European preference) and has a V6 engine that by European definitions is simply too large.
#6560 of 20239 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [zzzoom6]
Oct 22, 2007 (5:37 am)
This is not about sensitivity and defensiveness...very good questions are being asked.
If mazda(and Nissan) wants to reach a broader buying community, the advertising compaign should be rethought. They are targeting 18 year olds.
#6561 of 20239 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [zzzoom6]
Oct 22, 2007 (5:45 am)
they really need to reconsider it's emphasis on zoom-zoom at the expense of the Mazda6's other desireable traits.
see we now agree - for those younger demographic folk (the average age of an Accord buyer is supposedly now 50!) that 'zoom-zoom' might appeal to, should be turned off a bit by the 6s lack of straight line capabilities when considering them in relation to all the other cars in this group. Sell price if they must, or sell safety (braking-handling) if true, but not something (zoom) that would have many expecting a car with competitive power to go along with that better handling.
#6562 of 20239 Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [captain2]
Oct 22, 2007 (5:48 am)
When I was a kid,every car I owned had to be tested in a street drag race.It was a part of being a guy growing up in the '50s.Now that I'm all growed(sic) up,I care about comfort,dependability,economy and efficiency.Frankly,I dont even worry about handling as I dont do any racing of any kind.I feel perfectly safe even driving my lumbering 97 Chrysler mini-van.My new KIA Optima seems nimble,but I dont notice that it "handles" any better than any other car of any size or type.
#6563 of 20239 Re: Most Wanted Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [zzzoom6]
Oct 22, 2007 (5:56 am)
I think another reason that Mazda6 sales are not higher is that the car is at the end of its run. Some people, like robertsmx, might see the car as "ho hum, the same old 6 I've seen for five years." There are many newer models that might be garnering buyer's attention. For example, the Fusion may be taking sales from the Mazda6--it's based on the same platform, but has more interior room, some may prefer the styling, and it's an "American car" (made in Mexico, vs. the Mazda6 that is made in Michigan, but it's perception). And the Fusion starts at around $15k (stripped, but it draws people into the dealerships). That the 'ol Mazda6 cxn still draw critical acclaim attests to its fundamental goodness. Just like the previous-gen Accord, which was still garnering praise at the end of its life, although its sales had to be propped up with huge incentives--just like what is happening now with the Mazda6. Let's see whether sales pick up when the all-new Mazda6 debuts next year.
#6564 of 20239 Re: the meaning of zoom-zoom [jeffyscott]
Oct 22, 2007 (6:02 am)
anyone know what specific elements make the new styling Japanese rather than European?
Interesting question, but I will use one of my friends’ take on it (he wouldn’t drive anything but a BMW 3-series, until now).
Japanese designs tend to have more curves and lines, sometimes letting the feel of bigger vehicles than they actually are.
European designs (specifically German) tend to be tighter, cleaner, generally designed to reduce perception of size. The sheet metal is generally flat for most part, complemented by just a few lines.
For that reason, my friend thinks the new Accord looks more German than the new 3-series which he says looks more Japanese.