Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6380 of 20239 Consumer Reports....
Oct 16, 2007 (12:51 pm)
....will no longer automatically recommend redesigned Toyotas, citing below-average quality in new models.
"Consumer Reports magazine reported today that the quality of cars made by Toyota, long the benchmark for reliability among automotive brands, had slipped so much that the organization no longer will automatically recommend them. The 2007 Camry V6 and Tundra pickup scored below average. Consumer Reports won't recommend any model scoring below average to it's readers. " By MSN Money
"Ford Scores Big"
For Ford, the news was positive. The magazine said 93% of Ford Lincoln, and Mercury models scored average or better, allowing a "Recommended" designation. This includes the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan.
I know this was discussed, but, I thought I would just say it myself!
#6381 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [mz6greyghost]
Oct 16, 2007 (12:54 pm)
There's a reason to building a heritage, a name. CR goes by a standard (formula), instead of nothing at all. This is not a question of being neutral or unfair.
Let us get a perspective on this. You seem to be a Mazda fan. Now, you know what the current Mazda6 is like, in terms of driving experience and potentially, ownership. Would you call yourself utterly clueless about the next Mazda6 because you haven't really driven/owned one yet?
#6382 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [robertsmx]
Oct 16, 2007 (1:05 pm)
Would you call yourself utterly clueless about the next Mazda6 because you haven't really driven/owned one yet?
In essence, yes. I "expect" the next 6 to be just as fun to drive as the current model, this would make me biased toward the 6. However, for all I know, it could handle like a yacht and I'd hate every second of it. That's why I'll test-drive it as well as the competition to see what I'd prefer, previous experience be damned.
I wouldn't make ANY decision about any NEW car until I have a chance to test it out for myself, just as CR shouldn't make the decision to "recommend" a vehicle until the evidence has piled in.
#6383 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [mz6greyghost]
Oct 16, 2007 (1:23 pm)
In essence, yes. I "expect" the next 6 to be just as fun to drive as the current model, this would make me biased toward the 6.
Are you saying that because you're biased, or because you know how the car is oriented and expect it to carry on the tradition? Because, I'm far from being biased when it comes to Mazda6, but I can predict its personality. So, to me, bias doesn't play a role.
If Fusion does well in the first generation, would it be unfair/ridiculous for CR to assume that the same can be predicted for the next generation? Perhaps, you could avoid getting into "predicted reliability" thing, and just wait for observed results to come out.
#6384 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [robertsmx]
Oct 16, 2007 (1:32 pm)
I'm a huge supporter of Consumer Reports, but always wondered why they seem to recommend new models by Honda and Toyota WITHOUT a year under their belt. Now we know. Frankly, I agree with everyone who says they NEVER should recommend a model in its first year or first year after its redesign, no matter who makes it.
#6385 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [crutnacker]
Oct 16, 2007 (1:43 pm)
As I understand, predicted reliability is based on history. And I don't think they twist history for Honda and Toyota. For example, Honda Ridgeline (a brand new model) may have been recommended if Pilot already was. In fact, Ridgeline is Pilot with a bed (and a few chassis tweaks).
I think the problem is more of perception that CR and like blindly favor Honda and Toyota. The issue really is that these two rarely launch a brand new vehicle. And when they do, like everybody else, the recommendation is based on the automaker's history. If they don't bode well with the prediction over time, the recommendation is no longer valid, as is the case with Camry V6.
Name a vehicle that isn't a Honda/Toyota, but is recommended by CR. Then let me know if you think CR would not recommend its replacement when that happens. If you have an example, even better. That would help make your case.
#6386 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [crutnacker]
Oct 16, 2007 (1:43 pm)
Look what happened to the Mazda CX-7. A CEL problem that lingered a bit too long, and CR hit 'em hard. Ouch.
I have seen a lot of people in this thread, and the Accord thread talking about staying away from the new Accord V6 until the jury comes back with a verdict.
#6387 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [mz6greyghost]
Oct 16, 2007 (2:21 pm)
But to me, there should NOT be any "benefit of the doubt", whether they've scored well for 2 years or 20 years past.
So 20 years of reliability means nothing more than 0 years of reliability? I think as long as CR puts the word "PREDICTED" in front of reliability, the company who has consistantly produced reliable cars can get that assumption. Again, as long as they use the word "PREDICTED".
I think Toyota has fallen into the same trap that other car makers have (GM to name one). They are trying to build a different car for each customer. They are putting too much emphasis on expanding the model line, and not on the quality of each model. Honda, on the other hand seems to take time to develop each new model, and is less concerned with world domination. Will Toyota right the ship quickly, or will they have to learn the hard way, like GM is now?
#6388 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [elroy5]
Oct 16, 2007 (3:34 pm)
This information does not make a difference for me. Not that I personally would get a Toyota tomorrow, but CRs new recommendation means nothing, and I suspect it will be that way to a lot of people. Only a few people out of the hundreds of thousands that are sold would this matter to, imo.
A person unhappy with a car that got a gold star is just as unhappy as a person with a car that didn't get the star. Toyota has a good reputation and is likely to keep that reputation.
#6389 of 20239 Re: I wonder if the CR Bashers [kdshapiro]
Oct 16, 2007 (3:43 pm)
Many people buy Toyotas--specifically the Camry, here--because of their reputation for reliability. If you take away the Camry's repuation for reliability, what big advantage does it have over the competition? What justifies its price premium over alternatives like Fusion, Milan, Aura, Optima, and Sonata? When that reputation is challenged by a widely-reported and read source, whether it's CR or some other source, it can't help Camry sales. What will be interesting to see in the next few months is if there's any drop in Camry sales, which have been strong up until now.