Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6262 of 20239 Re: lilengineerboy [captain2]
Oct 10, 2007 (1:44 pm)
how on earth could KBB or NADA (or anybody) anticipate that the market for 6s would get so bad that $6k discounts would have to be offered and those resale values would necessarily decrease by a similar amount?
Other then that one Texas dealer you told me about, I have not seen $6K in discounts. I am a Mazda dealer, and I would be losing major money if I sold them at discounts like that. Maybe that dealer has some spectacular payment plan, but, that is definitely not the norm. One dealer out of 800 does not set the value of the Mazda6 line as a whole.
If you take a 2007 Mazda6 i Sport Value Edition, it has roughly a $1,300 mark up. Selling one at invoice plus the just introduced rebate of $2000, that is a $3,300 discount. I have yet to go below invoice, but, if I did, we are talking a couple hundred, not $2,700.
I recently put in an internet request to a local Honda dealer about a 2007 Honda Accord, and this was the response I got, with NO negotiating. "2007 Honda Accord SE sdn MSRP $22,370 our special internet price is $19,990. 2007 Honda Accord LX MSRP $21,670 our special internet price is $19,290" We are talking about discounts at around $2,400. Not too far off from what the Mazda6's are selling for around my area.
Are there people out there that are going to get better then $3,300 off MSRP on a Mazda6? Probably. Are there people that are going to get more then $2,400 off MSRP on an Accord? Probably, infact, I believe lilengineerboy got his for way more off then that.
I know that real publications that offer real world values to pre-owned vehicle, such as Galves and Black Book, set their values at what one can expect to get for the vehicle if you were to purchase or sell it at an auction. Since Honda has built a great reputation for dependability and reliability, their 4 cyl products tend to hold value longer then most brands. I have noticed their V6 models take bigger hits in value, rightfully so due to the recent problems with them. Also, I do believe mfgr incentives have a say in the auction value in the most recent year, not actually what dealers sell them for. It is well known that the biggest depreciation is applied in the first two years. Anyone who wants to trade out during that time frame will get killed, no matter what you drive.
From what I have seen, most people trade out of vehicles when mileage goes over 70K. At that point, many Japanese brands have values so close to one another, and the difference is minimal. There will be a bigger difference in value, for example, a 2002 Mazda/Nissan vs 2002 American equal then between a 2002 Honda/Toyota and 2002 Mazda/Nissan.
#6263 of 20239 Re: lilengineerboy [aviboy97]
Oct 10, 2007 (2:33 pm)
My 2003 Accord V6 Coupe sold for 53% of its out the door cost of when I bought it. This was 50 months and 65,000 miles later. It works out to a cost of $235/month. Not too shabby.
#6264 of 20239 Re: Huh?? [ccostable]
Oct 10, 2007 (4:43 pm)
I see quite a bit in the North. And, quite a few were Milans - both to my surprises.
#6265 of 20239 Re: lilengineerboy [aviboy97]
Oct 10, 2007 (6:57 pm)
KBB is not in the car business. They do not buy, or sell cars. KBB is a publisher. They make money offering you free estimates on vehicles by having sponsors on their site. What reputable company do that?
You're in the car business so I'm sure you know more about how accurate KBB is... I'm sure KBB is just a guide, kind of like the weatherman. Thing is, even though the weatherman is often wrong, I still listen cuz it's better info than what I could usually come up with on my own.
How long has KBB been around anyway? I'm sure they were around before the internet was big... long enough to have a decent level of credibility anyway. If they were a total joke and just randomly fixed values to cars who would go to their site? Nobody, which would mean zero ad revenue.
Now I'm not saying KBB is totally accurate... I'm sure there are many instances where it's a bit off. But I don't think they randomly choose numbers either. So they are a referrence point that many people use when buying or selling a car... As an individual who is not in the car business, how would I ever know what a car is worth were it not for resources like KBB? Am I to go to the nearest car lot and trust what they tell me? Or should I ask captain2 since he seems to know exactly how much I could sell my car for?
#6266 of 20239 C&D Test Drives Accord EX
Oct 10, 2007 (9:30 pm)
Leave it to Honda to show us how to do more with less
"Make no mistake: the Honda Accord is a terrific automobile no matter how it comes, but it also compels us to consider something we donít think about too often: at what point does horsepower become truly superfluous? Especially as fuel efficiency and low emissions, both longstanding hallmarks of the Honda brand, become more important than ever before, we are looking for cars that are both fun to drive and easy on the earth.
We just found one."
#6267 of 20239 Re: C&D Test Drives Accord EX [robertsmx]
Oct 10, 2007 (10:04 pm)
In fact, with a starting price of $20,995, the Accord is the least expensive full-size automobile available today. Weíre sure thatís no accident, as size matters in America as it does in no other country in the world.
I think they left out the $17k Sonata...dummies!
#6268 of 20239 Re: C&D Test Drives Accord EX [thegraduate]
Oct 11, 2007 (4:24 am)
I think they left out the $17k Sonata...dummies!
Is the Sonata officially full-size though? The Accord sedan (coupe is shorter) just hit the magic number to be classified as such but IIRC the sonata is a couple of inches shorter which keeps it in mid-sized land. No?
If I were shopping for a full-sizer, the Accord would be at the bottom of my list. Have you ever seen the room inside the cabins and trunks of the Accord's competitors, Taurus and Avalon? They rival some living rooms I've been in.
#6269 of 20239 Re: C&D Test Drives Accord EX [baggs32]
Oct 11, 2007 (4:35 am)
Is the Sonata officially full-size though?
From all the sources I've seen, yes.
#6270 of 20239 Re: C&D Test Drives Accord EX [robertsmx]
Oct 11, 2007 (4:40 am)
I've been a subscriber to most auto enthusiast magazines for over 30 years, 40 in the case of Road & Track. My profession is magazine publishing, not on the editorial side of the ledger, but the business side (display advertising). Although ideally there is supposed to be a definitive line of demarcation between editorial and advertising in the print media business, the reality is more pragmatic - advertising, and the amount a company places in a magazine, does certainly impact editorial.
If Honda, or Hyundai, Toyota, etc., would pull its display advertising from C&D, it would be interesting to see what they would have to say about any, or all, of their vehicles.
Given my experience, I would not take anything written in advertising-supported print media as gospel. FWIW, news stand and subscription sales of major monthly consumer magazines pay for the only the fixed cost administrative and production expenses. Without display advertising revenue, the magazine(s) would cease publication.
#6271 of 20239 Re: C&D Test Drives Accord EX [colloquor]
Oct 11, 2007 (5:17 am)
Bingo. While we sit here discussing models and proclaim one is "better" than the other, there are a bunch of numbers known as sales figures that really tell the story.
For example, it is said the Sonota is a "better value" than the Accord, but when will America wake up and realize this?