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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18223 messages,  Last post on May 25, 2013 at 9:56 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 569 of 1823

#5678 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [urnews] by targettuning

Sep 19, 2007 (8:25 am)

Replying to: urnews (Sep 19, 2007 6:11 am)
Its Ron but to answer your question. While we had a relatively good experience with this, a 12 year old Dodge, that I bought partly because I maintained it even when my daughter owned it and therefore didn't expect any suprises there isn't any new Chrysler product that interests me. Couple this with the corporate problems (a new owner etc.) Chrysler is experiencing and I won't consider one.
 Why Hyundai? Well, as I said my daughter has one (2003 Elantra)with about 36K miles and no problems, our son has the 2000 Elantra I bought him in Dec. 2003. It had about 63K miles then and has 166K miles now (he adds 100 miles per day in his commute). I know every penny that was spent on this car since we bought it and the list of replacement parts/repairs is as follows:
1. new alternator 154,XXX miles.
2. the original battery ruined by the failure of the alternator..same mileage
3. 2 sets of tires over 103K miles.
4. several sets of Hyundai brand rotors that for some reason developed "chatter" upon braking. These were replaced under warranty but I finally bought Bendix rotors that have been fine since. An anomaly?
5. 1 set plugs and wiring.
6. new timing belt ~ 80K miles and a new water pump at the same time because it is prudent to do that.
7. in Feb of this year a "flex pipe" was needed in the exhaust system. It connected the down pipe (at the exhaust manifold) to the rest of the exhaust.
 Further I personally have owned two Santa Fe SUV's. One a 2002 the other a 2003. Before anyone tries to make something of the early trade for the 2003 there were certain features introduced in '03 I "had to have". And before someone tries to make something about trading a Hyundai for a Honda (in the fall of 2005) the simple explanation is gas went over $3.00 per gallon for the first time ever and fuel economy while reasonable for an SUV wasn't that great in light of the price. So, the uncertainty of future prices was the reason for that trade. It wasn't that I disliked my Hyundai or that it was troublesome, on the contrary, it like all the others in our family was extremely troubleFREE. I originally wanted a Sonata but chose maximum economy and bought the Civic. Why not a 2006 Elantra? Well, that design was getting a bit "old" at 5 model years and I knew a redesign was in the works but didn't want to wait more than a year for that either. In light of the disappointment with the Civic I wish I had gone with the Sonata. I like Hyundai, I tried to like Honda but too many small things turned me off. To be clear it never left us sit, never had major component trouble but I lost track of Honda service bulletins that were issued to correct original flaws. That plus several recalls (three that I know of) were also issued. The latest is: #07V40200 a brake light switch problem...oh, that isn't the latest there also is #07V399000 which is a rear wheel bearing/speed sensor issue that may allow the rear wheel (s) to fall off.
 In summary there is no major foul-up for Hyundai ever.. nothing like the Toyota engine sludge issue or Honda transmission problems. Never say never but not to date. You are correct go with the good experience and that was/is Hyundai not Honda..sorry boys. So yeah, Hyundai for me.

#5679 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [aviboy97] by baggs32

Sep 19, 2007 (8:29 am)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Sep 19, 2007 7:57 am)
I highly doubt the power numbers will be that high. Mazda has announced they made the 2.3L into a 2.5L and it will produce 170hp.
 
Direcet injection will easily raise it to 200. I was wrong about the numbers I read though. The Ford employee who graced us with the prelim numbers for the 2008 Mazda6 stated 190-200 HP for the 2.5L I4 and, after checking the post again, it is a DI engine. Remember, these are prelim numbers, but from a reliable source IMO.

#5680 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [backy] by lilengineerboy

Sep 19, 2007 (8:33 am)

Replying to: backy (Sep 19, 2007 7:02 am)
Sorry, just the same head and block. My bad. The Chrysler "world engine" has Mercedes' variable valve timing, Hyundai uses their own.
 
Eh, a rose by another name...

#5681 of 18223 Re: windows... [akirby] by jeffyscott

Sep 19, 2007 (8:36 am)

Replying to: akirby (Sep 19, 2007 8:20 am)
As I already explained the Fusion windows go all the way down at the rear of the window and only stick up about 2" at the front tapering down to flush about halfway.
 
Sorry, I must have misread something...I thought that comment was about the Accord. I guess we did not get a detailed rear window report from any Accord owners . The Sonata was reported to have windows that go all the way down.
 
Urnews had said fusion left 4 inches of rear window . What you say about the Fusion sounds exactly like the Mazda6, which makes more sense.

#5682 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [bhmr59] by robertsmx

Sep 19, 2007 (8:43 am)

Replying to: bhmr59 (Sep 18, 2007 5:25 pm)
It applies to any additional trim piece (carbon fiber, aluminum, wood). But wood is something that is a bit too common, down to the cheapest economy cars that don't have much else going. And I equally detest the silver/aluminum plastic trims too, in any car.

#5683 of 18223 Re: windows... [jeffyscott] by akirby

Sep 19, 2007 (9:01 am)

Replying to: jeffyscott (Sep 19, 2007 8:36 am)
What's a couple of inches between friends?

#5684 of 18223 Re: windows... [jeffyscott] by urnews

Sep 19, 2007 (9:03 am)

Replying to: jeffyscott (Sep 19, 2007 8:36 am)
Urnews had said fusion left 4 inches of rear window . What you say about the Fusion sounds exactly like the Mazda6, which makes more sense.
 
I was mistaken, relied on memory. What Allen Kirby described is accurate. By actual measurement, 1.5 inches of the glass is above the sill at the most forward point. It tapers downward and disappears about midway of the sill. I apologize for the faulty information.
 
It still bugs me that it doesn't disappear completely. Not a biggie, to be sure, just a minor annoyance. It looks like a mistake even if it's not.

#5685 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [lilengineerboy] by targettuning

Sep 19, 2007 (9:17 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Sep 19, 2007 8:33 am)
Sources I found indicate that "reportedly" while the basic block was designed by Hyundai, Chrysler and Mitsubishi made "a large number of modifications and changes to make it more efficient and adapt it to their uses and technologies. Most of the packaging and dressing such as the intake manifold and valve timing equipment appear to have been developed by each partner independently and will be used independently as well." Many components are out sourced including rods pistons camshafts and others.
 Further there are several variants of this including a 1.8 liter a 2.0 liter a 2.4 liter (which has more hp than the Sonata 173) and both a 2.4 liter turbo (which has far more 300) and a 2.0 liter diesel. I would say that even the basic block as designed by Hyundai has been modified enough by both Chrysler and Mitsu. that it is not the same engine as used in the Sonata. The displacement is the same, true, but the engine has enough differences that..nope..it isn't a "Hyundai engine" any more than it is a "Mitsubishi engine" or a "Chrysler engine" it is a GEMA engine which is a separate company...co-developed for sure. If you want further differences I guess I can research more and come up with some. Further research shows no Hyundai applications for this series of engines.

#5686 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [targettuning] by urnews

Sep 19, 2007 (9:28 am)

Replying to: targettuning (Sep 19, 2007 8:25 am)
Another good report, Ron. Much appreciated.
 
In summary there is no major foul-up for Hyundai ever.. nothing like the Toyota engine sludge issue or Honda transmission problems. Never say never but not to date. You are correct go with the good experience and that was/is Hyundai not Honda..sorry boys. So yeah, Hyundai for me.
 
The thing that bothers me so much about the Toyota sludge problem is how the company stonewalled for so long. It took a class-action lawsuit to get the company to do the right thing. Many many thousands of owners were affected.
 
One of the nice things about our 3.0-liter V6 Ford engine in our 2007 Fusion is the fact that it is not known to have any inherent problems at this stage of the game. It is dependable and reliable even though it might not be as sophisticated as some other engines in the marketplace.
 
From all that I've read, the Sonata is a fine mid-size car. We went with the Fusion because of good past experiences with Ford products and the fact that the dealer, Sherwood of Salisbury, Md., is top notch in our book.

#5687 of 18223 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [baggs32] by aviboy97

Sep 19, 2007 (10:18 am)

Replying to: baggs32 (Sep 19, 2007 8:29 am)
The Ford employee who graced us with the prelim numbers for the 2008 Mazda6 stated 190-200 HP for the 2.5L I4 and, after checking the post again, it is a DI engine. Remember, these are prelim numbers, but from a reliable source IMO.
 
I am a Mazda employee, and have heard no such numbers yet. I will be more then happy to eat my words if the North American 2009 Mazda6 I4 gets more then 170hp!
 
I have 2008 Mazda6's in my inventory, the new Mazda6 will be a 2009, not 2008.

Messages Page 569 of 1823

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