Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 7:13 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#5643 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [targettuning]
Sep 18, 2007 (11:49 am)
I don't think he was talking about a current Sonata, but instead a late model one, that had the 2.7.
Here is an Edmunds take on that engine, from the 2003-2004 Midsize Comparison test.
The Hyundai offers a mostly tepid driving experience. Its 2.7-liter V6 is rated for 170 horsepower and 181 pound-feet of torque, and it was about as fast as the Passat in instrumented acceleration testing. Out on public roads, though, the Sonata felt slower, as its engine had little to work with until it had revved to about 3,500 rpm. After that point, the lethargy ceased and the Hyundai offered ample highway passing power. The engine was quiet at cruise, and drivers preferred it to the slightly faster Sebring's due to its greater refinement.
Our test vehicle came with a four-speed automatic transmission (your only choice for 2004) with an automanual mode. The transmission shifted smoothly but was slow on the draw with downshifts. This hesitation was particularly noticeable when a quick burst of speed was needed to catch an opening in traffic.
In 0-60, it ran 9.1 seconds.
The Accord 4-cyl in 2003 (10 more hp, 9 more lb-ft, but 200lbs heavier too - so probably a wash) was discussed in a long-term test from Edmunds.com also. Here's what an editor had to say...
Editor in Chief Karl Brauer logged more positive comments: "The car is fast. Not fast for a four-cylinder but simply fast. I never felt like it was lacking in power, and considering the way I typically drive on my commute down Pacific Coast Highway, that's pretty amazing."
After passing the break-in period, we subjected the Accord to our standard battery of instrumented testing, where it managed an 8.8-second 0-to-60-mph run.
So, I don't think it's that far-fetched to say his 4-cyl Accord could run with the old V6 Sonata. Considering the fact that with VTEC more power could be had more flexibly than the 2.7 V6 from that era.
The 2004 Sonata V6 was 170hp/3200lbs, the 1998 Accord 4-cyl was 150hp/2900 lbs (According to ConsumerGuide).
Today though, is a different story.
#5644 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [louiswei]
Sep 18, 2007 (11:54 am)
Oh never fear, those are the new rubber door handles, designed with safety in mind
Speaking of $32K cars, I just saw an ad for a Mercedes for that amount of money. Wonder how that stacks up against the new CTS, and the little Bimmer, the 3? Will the day come when the problems with reliability no longer be an issue with Mercedes. For a long time now, the SLK, their little roadster, was their most reliable effort. I can see how some may be leery though of a German luxury company offering a car in the $32K range given the dollar - Euro rates, and well let's say current pricing of more common cars, like a Toyota reaching that level. I sounds great to get a Mercedes at this prices. But if it sounds too good to be true then??? As the cost to buy loaded mid-size family cars goes up, do we now have a meeting with the low end of luxury cars? Anyone road tested the new baby Mercedes, the CTS, and BMW3 lately? Hasn't the 3 grown up these days; size wise that is? Are the Japan choices better, in the lowest $30K's ? And the Swedes? Who out there is willing to give Mercedes a go? Or let's go out there a little farther, what about the Azera and other luxury Korean cars. Which would you buy - which are off the list? Loren
#5645 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [louiswei]
Sep 18, 2007 (11:59 am)
That and the fake wood are probably my only nit picking about the TL.
Plastic wood (plood) is one of my pet peeves. I dislike it in all cars. I don't even care for real wood as a matter of fact. Our 2007 Ford Fusion has something called piano black trim. Yeah, it's plastic but to my mind's eye it looks a lot more upscale than plood.
Sep 18, 2007 (11:59 am)
I rec'd a V6 Sonata rental the other day from Enterprise.
The Sonata is very powerful in V6 clothing. I believe articles that report they have had it as low as 6.9. My first V6 Sonata that I drove in 2006 had a pause in the accelerator that was annoying to me. The one I drove the other day was responsive and very quick. The band of acceleration was nearly as good as the 3.5 VQ engines I drove for many years.
Anyone who says the Sonata V6 is 'deficient' hasn't driven a Sonata V6 3.3 or an Azera 3.8. Very, very good engines.
To date I have spent time behind the wheel of the following rentals: Ford Taurus(classic model), Mitsu Galant and Lancer, Pontiac Grand Prix (3.8), Hyundai Azera, Kia Rondo, Kia Optima, Dodge Caliber, Chrysler Sebring, Ford Escape, Nissan Altima, Chevy Malibu. I have not rented a new Camry or Accord but have driven them privately
#5647 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [thegraduate]
Sep 18, 2007 (12:11 pm)
0-60 speeds are like those guys which think they are the toughest on the block. Well, sooner or later they meet their match or get beat (beat up). Power in a car, nowadays, is more or less just like other things in rating a car, a matter of preference. Personally, anything faster than 0-60 in 9 seconds is good for a four banger, and 0-60 below 7.5 seconds is fine for a six cylinder. And those under 7 seconds are quick, while those under 5 seconds are really-really fast. Most all the new mid-sized cars are adequate power wise. It is not like the old days of say 12-13 or 14 seconds to 60 times. I now enjoy the six cylinder power in a modern car, but I lived with, and safely drove less powerful cars. I imagine my Corolla was around 10 seconds, or more some times when it failed to kick down to first on the on-ramp, but I managed to make it, or bailed out The new four bangers, I take it, should have more go power, like I said at 9 seconds or less to 60 and thus pretty safe. That said, I do like those sub 7 second runs to 60 MPH, and it has helped me out a few times already. So, I don't know how my times would compare to others as what I would say is good for each engine, but that is how I see it. And I don't see too much of a difference when considering a car which say had a 0-60 of 6 seconds vs another which was 7 seconds. Yes, power is a good thing, but really anything sub 7.5 seconds seems to me to be moving along quickly and will be able to pass well, and merge with any traffic on the freeway, except a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette.
drive on - Loren
#5648 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [urnews]
Sep 18, 2007 (12:14 pm)
Is that the high gloss black? Yes - looks good. Any scratch problems to date? L
#5649 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [m1miata]
Sep 18, 2007 (12:15 pm)
The more power added to cars, the less important it becomes. Heck, my 2006 Accord 4-cylinder is faster than an Accord V6 from 9 years earlier (same amount of power, more forward gears in the transmission).
I drive my 1996 with 130 hp and a 4-speed Auto pretty regularly. When I go for a few days and get back in my 06 with 166 hp and iVtec, I forget how fast it is! I dig deep on the throttle on an on-ramp and **whooosh** off I go! The 130 hp (probably 125 on the new standard) hasn't been a deadly hazard since I know how to plan for things, but the extra 40 hp in my 2006 model is a welcome addition in point-and-squirt merging situations.
#5650 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [louiswei]
Sep 18, 2007 (12:28 pm)
Fake or real, I detest wood trim now. It has become a fine way to cover up design/assembly/quality deficiencies that prevail in most cars. That was one bonus I had with choosing silver exterior in the TL. I got an industrial look on the inside with carbon fiber trim to go with nice looking aluminum.
#5651 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [m1miata]
Sep 18, 2007 (12:31 pm)
I agree. While 0-60 makes for an interesting read, I prefer the more realistic rolling acceleration times that few magazines care about. There is less “flash” about it after all.
#5652 of 20237 Re: Five Points Plus, A Couple of Minuses: A Tall Order [m1miata]
Sep 18, 2007 (12:35 pm)
I have the piano black interior on my 2006 Fusion - 2 years now and no scratches.
And the rear windows only stick up about 2 inches at the front of the door when down, not 4 inches. It disappears into the door about halfway back. So the rear half of the window is totally down.