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Midsize Sedans 2.0

13335 messages,  Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 8:29 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Saturn Aura, Car Comparisons, Sedan


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#5553 of 13335
Re: Residuals can be deceiving [ykang] by robertsmx
Sep 17, 2007 (3:39 am)
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Replying to: ykang (Sep 16, 2007 10:15 pm)

I don't think so. The only similarity seems to be sharper inside corners of the headlamps, and that is a contemporary design element seen in a boat load of cars. Is it really that different from, say, what you see in TL, TSX, Civic, or several Japanese Hondas? In fact, it isn't too different from 1990-1993 Accord's headlamp with a contemporary touch. But here is the other Honda (Japanese) from which Accord gets its headlamps:

 
They are virtually identical. As for the grill, I don't see any similarity there. As I said earlier, 2005+ Sonata's grill is more like a touched up grill from 1998 Accord. I even see similar "bulge" around the outline of the grill. Take a closer look at 1998 Accord, side by side, and you might see that. If 2008 Accord makes you think Sonata, perhaps it is because there is a 1998 Accord-look in it. "What Goes Around, Comes Around".
 
Take a look at the Hyundai I30 revealed at Frankfurt just a few days ago. When I saw that grill, I thought "Civic". Perhaps, in a few years from now, if Honda maintains/evolves the Civic that even remotely mimics 2006 version, people will be saying... that looks like a Hyundai!
 
Of course, 1998 Jaguar S-Type looks like a 2000 Hyundai Sonata too.
#5554 of 13335
Re: Residuals can be deceiving [m1miata] by robertsmx
Sep 17, 2007 (3:45 am)
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Replying to: m1miata (Sep 16, 2007 10:02 pm)

What's up with this strange bug eyes on the new Accord?
 
I agree. It is a carry over from similar effect on CR-V and Odyssey. Some other cars (Lexus GS) have it too. And I think it is limited to sedan only. Accord Coupe has it conventionally styled (Honda Stream, pictured above, doesn't either).
#5555 of 13335
Re: 2008 Accord - TheGrad's Impressions [zzzoom6] by jeffyscott
Sep 17, 2007 (4:31 am)
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Replying to: zzzoom6 (Sep 16, 2007 9:38 pm)

I love those round vents in the mazda6. Disappointing to seem them dropped from the center dash in the new version. I like that I can instantly see where they are aimed and if they are open or not, with just a quick glance. I also think they are a little quicker and easier to change the aim on or shut off than the conventional type.
 
The Mazda6 has rear seat heat ducts...but, I am not even sure where they are.
 
My wife's Jetta, not quite in this class, has rear vents in the center storage area. Based on that, I assume that the Passat would also have that feature.
#5556 of 13335
Re: 2008 Prices Online! [louiswei] by targettuning
Sep 17, 2007 (5:52 am)
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Replying to: louiswei (Sep 14, 2007 1:30 pm)

Although I didn't read all the replys between this post by you and the most current posts I will "stick up" for urnews in as much you post several pictures and tell us it from "so-and-so" year and model. We are supposed to see certain faults with fit and finish (I guess) and while I do see some gaps I cannot tell without seeing the whole dash, or whatever total piece this snippet is supposed to represent, if the parts fit well or not. I cannot tell the overall design and therefore cannot tell if certain gaps are faults...or not. Further I cannot feel the plastics, if that is what your beef is. As far as I know you could have visited 10 dealers and looked at 100 cars to find a flaw to prove your point. You cannot post a snapshot of something that could be a 57 Ford and use it as "proof" a Camry or Accord is wonderful. I don't even care for the current crop of Chrysler cars but I see flaws with your reasoning in using this as some sort of proof.
 Having read all the posts in between it seems this photo as proof thing has faded into the past. Therefore my post is old news. Sorry I really should not post first and read later....
#5557 of 13335
Re: Fantastically Great Article... for the most part [andres3] by mz6greyghost
Sep 17, 2007 (6:21 am)
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Replying to: andres3 (Sep 16, 2007 6:19 pm)

The Aura's increase in sales were due to deep discounting and big time rebates, not the comparison.
 
Let me know when you get some ACTUAL evidence of this.
 
My sister, who is a CPA, went to a local Saturn dealer, just to see what the comparison was about. She was amazed that for slightly more than $21K, she could get a well-equipped Aura XE with a V6, compared to a 4-cylinder in the Camry and Accord. She was just as impressed with the fit-and-finish, interior materials, and the drive/ride of the Aura as with the Accord. Two days before, she was able to talk down a '07 Accord V6 to $24K (including the $1K rebate from Honda), similarly equipped, and was ready to sign the papers until she bought the Saturn.
 
Oh, and for the record, Saturn did NOT offer any "deep discounting" or any "big time rebates". And IMO, after driving her new Aura a few times, they don't need to.
#5558 of 13335
Re: Fantastically Great Article... for the most part [mz6greyghost] by robertsmx
Sep 17, 2007 (6:45 am)
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Sep 17, 2007 6:21 am)

If in-store comparison helped Aura, why would GM not continue it. They had also announced to do it with the new Malibu but suddenly retracted (and interestingly enough, this coincided with the launch of the new Accord). Given the timing of events, I conclude that GM didn't think it was a good idea to pit the new Accord against Aura and new Malibu. The comparison worked well using a model that was four-five years old.
#5559 of 13335
Re: 2008 Prices Online! [targettuning] by robertsmx
Sep 17, 2007 (6:50 am)
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Replying to: targettuning (Sep 17, 2007 5:52 am)

I cannot tell the overall design and therefore cannot tell if certain gaps are faults...or not. Further I cannot feel the plastics, if that is what your beef is.
 
I posted the pictures (not louiswei). That said, if you can't tell the difference, or get a feel for it from it, then let us agree upon one thing... our standards for quality is different. I won't settle for something like that in anything above $15K, and won't be happy with it even in a car that costs less.
#5560 of 13335
Re: Fantastically Great Article... for the most part [robertsmx] by mz6greyghost
Sep 17, 2007 (6:56 am)
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Replying to: robertsmx (Sep 17, 2007 6:45 am)

The comparison worked well using a model that was four-five years old.
 
...And a new-for-'07 Camry. A MT COTY Camry I might add.
 
I'm not sure why GM discontinued it for the Malibu. I'm simply saying that although it may not have created a huge jump in Aura sales (at least in the eyes of GM), it DID help some consumers to make a smarter decision (in their own eyes) in terms of purchasing a car. Incidentally, the salesperson at the Saturn dealer said that a fair amount of people did test-drive all three models, and at least 90% of them picked the Aura over the Camry and Accord. Not only owners of current Saturns, but also Honda, Toyota, and Nissan owners as well.
#5561 of 13335
Re: Fantastically Great Article... for the most part [mz6greyghost] by m1miata
Sep 17, 2007 (7:46 am)
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Sep 17, 2007 6:21 am)

Well she may be a CPA, but she is not too sharp with the car buying. I bought the Accord SE V6 for 22,500, which is a SOHC vs. OHV engine with more HP, and a five speed, instead of a four speed tranny. I have stability control and a 6CD changer. The ride may be softer in the XE, but it seems pretty close to me. That slightly more than $21K is gonna cost much more than the less than $22,500 I paid when you go to sell, and I have the one grade above the other car. She needed to talk to me first, the CIB, a Certified Individual Buy The interior is better on the '07 Accord than the Aura, BTW, and a bit more room inside as well. The Aura is a tad bit narrow, and the knee hits the dashboard. Overall, it is not a bad car, just not the best example of an Aura. The Aura XR, if bought around $22K is not a bad deal, though the total in and out will not be as good as the Accord or Camry.
Loren CIB
#5562 of 13335
I too drove a 2008 Accord by targettuning
Sep 17, 2007 (7:48 am)
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Last Friday while our Civic was in the shop I drove a 2008 Accord LX-P. I never drove an Accord before so everything was new to me and this post is based on my prior lack of knowledge about them.
 I liked the side profile which has a BMW like "character" line along the flanks. Same for the side window shape. I can't recall anything about the rear so it must have been unremarkable..neither great nor horrible. The front was a different story and overall I did not like it. For some reason it reminded me of the Pilot truck all chunky with a large opening down low and having a big rectangular grid within. The front didn't do it for me. The interior was comfortable and it rode smoothly and quietly but it WAS a new car so I expected it would. I didn't care too much for the large display center in the center of the dash...why? I can't say really but it just struck me as being too large for the information displayed within. Some areas of the interior reminds me of our 2006 Civic. The steering wheel has much the same design and feel with the same buttons for the same features, the glove box door has what looks to me to be the same latch handle as the one on the Civic.
 I was interested in the performance aspect and the base 177hp I-4 engine did perform well and one can expect the 190hp 4cyl to be pretty good as well. But until I see published documented numbers I'll remain neutral on that since only 2lb/ft.of torque separate the two. I did not drive the V-6 and aside from the 3-4-6 cylinder deactivation feature, which may be a gimmick depending on your point of view, I expect it be quick as well. I am trying to wean myself off V-6's which is why I am starting to pay more attention to the I-4 cylinders offered by everyone and for now Honda has, I believe, the most powerful. New EPA sticker numbers are now down to what may be "real world" if one is honest in reporting what that really is. The salesperson was quick to point this out saying most (many) people will still exceed those EPA numbers...maybe.
 In all it was merely OK and I intend to try the 190hp version as soon as one becomes available. For now I think I will wait until the freshened Sonata shows up which in view of the sticker prices on the several Accords I looked at may be a bigger bargain (define that as you see fit but don't tell me I am wrong) than ever...either that or a diesel version of "something" shows up.
 Finally, we bought a 2006 Civic, one that was a completely new design and have endured quite a few "un-Honda like" problems so buying a first year redesign again doesn't do it for me. I think our Civic has colored my perception of Honda "quality" anyhow.

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