Last post on May 22, 2013 at 10:18 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#3620 of 18209 Re: No matter what [andres3]
Jul 23, 2007 (12:57 pm)
No, people buy Camcords because they have a history of satisfied ownership which includes much better than average reliability. Boz is right - a satisfied Camcord owner isn't likely to look elsewhere unless they have a bad experience. It will take years, maybe decades to win over any significant percentage of those buyers unless the Camcords continue to have problems like the engine sludge and transmission problems or the styling, features or pricing get way out of line.
Ford's best hope is to continue to keep quality high and to continue to make improvements every 3-4 years so that a Fusion owner looking for something new has a new model to consider. If the 2010 model looks just like the 2006 model then current customers will look elsewhere for something new. This is where the Camcords have succeeded the last 20 years. And that's why the 2009 Fusion refresh is so critical.
#3621 of 18209 Re: fun with numbers [captain2]
Jul 23, 2007 (1:32 pm)
The answer is simple, most buyers use CR as reference rather than gospel. At least it's that way for me. You also can never really assume you know how the average "JOE" thinks. If the "Average Joe" thought CR was gospel, than sales in this category would be relative to CRs ranking, which we know it's not.
#3622 of 18209 Re: fun with numbers [backy]
Jul 23, 2007 (1:34 pm)
Passat tops the rankings for 4 cylinders by one point, indeed, but IMO is out of contention because of its abysmal reliability rating (reference the black dot). Pending a strong showing by the Altima (and it has never in its history fallen below 'Average' by CR), it will be the highest rated 4 cyl. recommended model..... until the likes of the new Accord, Malibu, et al. are tested. And even if the Altima V6 is TIED at the top (which it is), it is still at the TOP....
FWIW, the Camry Hybrid is now also available for $25,800, if you can forgo alloys, JBL/6CD, electrochromatic rearview, and the leather, moonroof, and NAV options of the CR test vehicle.
#3623 of 18209 Re: No matter what [akirby]
Jul 23, 2007 (1:46 pm)
This is where the Camcords have succeeded the last 20 years. And that's why the 2009 Fusion refresh is so critical.
I couldn't agree more Allen. The Fusion is a terrific mid-size car but it must continue to be just that in order for Ford to make any headway in this market segment.
Even if someone other than Toyota or Honda could build the "perfect" car it would probably require a decade or more to overcome the lead now held by Camry and Accord.
It took years for the Toyota engine sludge problem to surface and even longer for it to be resolved. To be sure, those owners who suffered through this ordeal would never buy another Toyota product. Toyota's reluctance to acknowledge the problem is one reason why I would not buy one of this company's cars.
#3624 of 18209 Re: fun with numbers [alpha01]
Jul 23, 2007 (1:52 pm)
Weird how the 4-cylinder Passat has an "abysmal" reliability score from CR but the V6 is fine and is Recommended by CR.
I have a feeling CR will test and report on the new Accord ASAP, since it is so popular, maybe the Malibu also. So the Altima's position as "top-ranked Recommended 4 cylinder family car" could be very short.
Nearly all (or maybe all?) of the family cars CR tested are available for less than the tested price--almost all for thousands less than the Camry Hybrid's starting price. But an Altima costing $8000 less than the Camry Hybrid out-pointed it. In the V6 group, the Accord was over $4000 less than each of the other two top-ranked cars.
#3625 of 18209 Re: fun with numbers [backy]
Jul 23, 2007 (2:02 pm)
Well I had heard of VW's with oil consumption problems, so before considering a Rabbit or Jetta, I thought to ask the salesman what they considered oil consumption under warranty issues. He referred me to the service dept, which confirmed what I had heard that the 8/10 qt. per 1,ooo miles is the limit acceptable. And you break in a VW engine, as in a rather slow break in period, as in these must be old technology engines, IMHO. Too each his own, but I am not interested in these four banger or now five banger engines if they may start consuming oil. Now it is very well possible that broken in correctly, few if any will consume oil. Anyone out there which owned several of these VW's over the years care to chime in? I am going by what you hear off the chat rooms, complaints issued listed on the Net, and just what the warranty considers as excessive. Japan engines use less than a quarter per 5,ooo miles. Not 8/10 qt. every 1,ooo miles.
#3626 of 18209 Re: Warranties [andres3]
Jul 23, 2007 (2:43 pm)
I'd expect zero to one issues as well, but we can't always get what we expect (unless your buying Toyota's and Honda's )
Eh, not true for me. Before my first tank of gas was gone, I had to have my rear-view mirror (the interior one) replaced in my brand new Accord because the mirror glass wasn't attached to the plastic housing properly (causing a very bad vibration in the mirror). Also, the gas flap fit so tightly, it wouldn't always open on the first push of the lever when it was new, and required adjustment. All within 1,000 miles.
Brand new Honda. Two (very minor) issues. Honda and Toyota are businesses, not heavenly bodies.
By the way, I absolutely love my 2006 Accord 4 cylinder. I've got 22,800 miles on it now.
#3627 of 18209 Re: fun with numbers [backy]
Jul 23, 2007 (3:03 pm)
In the V6 group, the Accord was over $4000 less than each of the other two top-ranked cars.
It's reassuring to know the car I bought 4 years ago, is still at the top of the heap. I'm so proud. What are the chances my next car will be an Accord also? Pretty high, so far.
#3628 of 18209 Re: Warranties [thegraduate]
Jul 23, 2007 (3:08 pm)
Those minor issues you had at purchase with your Accord are caused by the Ohioans..... I'm assuming. Was your Accord assembled in Ohio, I'd bet 3 to 1 it was; judging from the assembly issues you describe.
But even the Ohioans can't screw up superior engineering and parts quality all that much; so the major issues are still rare.
#3629 of 18209 Re: fun with numbers [m1miata]
Jul 23, 2007 (3:19 pm)
VW also noted for sludging issues as well as consumption, and it should be noted that Nissan also had an oil consumption issue (on its 4 banger) that led to a recall, something I believe Nissan handled properly. The VW V6 is every bit as high tech and almost as efficient as the Toyota 2GR IMO, don't have any idea why the 'old fashioned' break-in period requirements or FTM why the 4 banger should be showing a poor track record unless, of course, its related to the turbocharged versions. The Passat V6 is one sweet driving car (great power/reasonable FE) combined with some 'tight' handling - high relative price and lower relative resale seem to hurt it. Perhaps it should be included in this group.