Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 2:41 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#3607 of 20232 fun with numbers
Jul 23, 2007 (6:01 am)
I find it puzzling to be " definitely worried about Nissan" based on the new Altima.
Although I can't think of a truly scientific way to judge the success or appeal of a vehicle based on knowledge that is available in the public arena, here's my best attempt:
-CYTD sales of the Altima are up 18.4%
-Fleet sales (most recent available, 6 mo. 09/06 - 02/07) of the NEW Altima are 16.5%
-According to the July 9 Auto News, Factory to Dealer and Factory to Consumer incentives were minimal, and much lower than those for the í06 Altima at this time last year
So, even assuming that every single one of the 2006 went to a consumer and not fleet (obviously not the case), sales are STILL up vs. the '06, and consumers are paying HIGHER prices.
-CYTD through June, Accord sales are up
-CYID through June, Camry sales are up
This shows that while these models still dominate, itís not like Ė in particular re: the Accord Ė this is a momentary spike in Altima sales due to the lack of appeal from other models. If anything, the fact that the Altima can grow share while the Honda piles on factory to dealer Accord incentives to move inventory, is a sign of strength, in my opinion.
- Consumer Reports recently put the Altima (4 and V6) at or near the top of their class. While *I know* that everyone on this board is a far better consumer (so spare me the flaming) and considers a million and one things before purchase, other, less enthusiast-like consumers will see that report, and thatís all they need to know.
- The Altima has introduced a coupe for 2008, broadening the appeal to consumers by offering more model variations
- The Altima now offers a hybrid, vs. last generation
- For those who care about safety, ABS is now standard, which I think was one of the most detrimental aspects of the more basic Altimas.
So, based on all of this, where does the "worry" come from?
Certainly while Iím not against the continual improving of product, I simply think that the new Altima, to date, is quite successful, and shrewdly positioned for the future Ė including the new Accord, Malibu, 6, et al.
[If any model launch should give Nissan pause, itís the Sentra, and potentially the Versaís role in that dramatic sales plummet]
#3608 of 20232 Re: fun with numbers [alpha01]
Jul 23, 2007 (6:53 am)
less enthusiast-like consumers will see that report, and thatís all they need to know.
right on the mark here - CR likely the single most influential opinion on any car - whether it deserves to be, or whether we 'enthusiasts' happen to agree with their particular priorities is not the point, it remains a Bible of sorts for many.
The strange part of this - CR was not all that excited about the new Camry except for the Hybrid (of course) but it hasn't seemed to hurt sales - the majority of which are 4 banger LEs.
#3609 of 20232 Re: fun with numbers [captain2]
Jul 23, 2007 (9:07 am)
I don't see this as strange at all. Toyota produces a reliable sedan that appeals to the masses, they understand their target market very well. I applaud them for that.
#3610 of 20232 Re: Warranties [goodegg]
Jul 23, 2007 (9:12 am)
Jeez - I hope not. I put 15,300 miles on a car in 9 months easy, and would expect zero issues in that time frame also, be it a Honda or a Ford.
Unfortunately, I've owned a Chrysler conceived Dodge vehicle built in 1994 (95 model) and it required serveral visits in the first 15,000 miles for warranty issues.
I'd expect zero to one issues as well, but we can't always get what we expect (unless your buying Toyota's and Honda's )
#3611 of 20232 Re: fun with numbers [kdshapiro]
Jul 23, 2007 (10:23 am)
kd- the question was why - if CRs opinion means so much to the 'average Joe' carbuyer - are more buyers not looking past the Camry? Half a million Camrys is a bunch of cars even relative to Honda and Nissan volumes, never mind all the 'also rans'. Not denying Camry's well justified reputation and/or the position it has developed in the midsize sedan market at all.
#3612 of 20232 Re: fun with numbers [captain2]
Jul 23, 2007 (10:36 am)
FWIW, the Camry still finishes VERY highly in CR's rating scheme. It's just that the Altima is at the TOP.
#3613 of 20232 Re: Warranties [andres3]
Jul 23, 2007 (10:46 am)
And we all know that absolutely nothing has changed in the american automotive industry since 1994.
#3614 of 20232 Re: fun with numbers [alpha01]
Jul 23, 2007 (10:47 am)
As does, of course, the Accord, despite being 4 years young. But it does seem that the American carbuyer seems to value that Toyota trademark smooth/quiet/soft ride more than what CR does.
#3615 of 20232 Re: Warranties [akirby]
Jul 23, 2007 (11:12 am)
"And we all know that absolutely nothing has changed in the american automotive industry since 1994. "
Yeah, in 2004 it was my Ford...
#3616 of 20232 No matter what
Jul 23, 2007 (11:22 am)
If the Ford Fusion -- or any other mid-size sedan for that matter -- received the highest awards for all categories from all testers and went from 0-60 in 6 seconds flat, delivered 40 mpg in city driving, etc., etc. it still wouldn't create much of a dent in Toyota Camry and Honda Accord sales, IMHO.
Why? Because Camry and Accord have such a fine track record that they get an enormous amount of repeat business from satisfied owners.
At this point, FoMoCo, GM, Chrysler would have to build the best mid-size sedan for 10 years running before pulling even with the Camry and Accord. Their lead is almost insurmountable. Of course, Toyota and Honda know this and continue to improve their products as well.
I believe our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion is every bit as good as a Camry or Accord (better in some respects) but obviously the car-buying public sees things differently.