Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#3509 of 20239 Re: The problem with the Saturn... [akirby]
Jul 19, 2007 (9:49 am)
"Ford Motor Company's modern 2.5 L and 3.0 L V6 automobile engines are evolutions of the same design, first used in the 1994 Ford Mondeo. This line is sold under the brand name "Duratec", as are many other engines.
The Mondeo V6 is a modern aluminum DOHC V6 with a 60° bank angle. The primary engineering input came from Porsche, who were developing a similar V6 before selling the engineering to Ford, and Cosworth, who helped with cylinder head manufacturing. The Jaguar AJ-V6 engine is similar but adds variable valve timing. Mazda's AJ version also has this feature."
"The 3.0 L Duratec 30 or Mazda AJ was introduced in 1996 as a replacement for the 232 in³ (3.8 L) Essex V6 in the Taurus/Sable. It has 2967 cc of displacement and produces between 200 and 240 hp (150 and 180 kW). The same basic engine is used in the Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV, Mazda6, Mondeo ST220 and many other Ford vehicles. It is essentially a bored-out (to 89 mm) Duratec 25 and is built in Ford Motor Company's Cleveland, OH #2 plant. A slightly modified version for the Ford Five Hundred entered production at the Cleveland, OH #1 plant in 2004.
There are two key versions of the Duratec 30:
DAMB - The Lincoln LS and Jaguar AJ30 versions have direct-acting mechanical bucket (DAMB) tappets. Output is 232 hp (173 kW) at 6750 RPM with 220 ft·lbf (298 N·m) of torque at 4500 rpm.
RFF - The Taurus/Sable/Escape version uses roller finger followers (RFF) instead and produces 201 hp (150 kW) at 5900 RPM with 207 ft·lbf (281 N·m) of torque at 4400 rpm.
The 2006 Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln Zephyr feature a version of the Duratec 30 utilizing variable valve timing. The engine has an output of 221 hp (165 kW) at 6250 rpm, and 205 ft·lbf (278 N·m) of torque at 4800 rpm.
A Twin-turbocharged version of this engine is used in the Noble M400, a British supercar. The engine is rebuilt and tuned to a max power of 425 bhp 6500 rpm, with a torque figure of 390 ft·lbf 5000 rpm. Noble has used forged pistons, an oil cooler, a larger baffled oil sump and extra cooling ducts to maintain its durability.
Mazda's MZI version adds variable valve timing, as does Jaguar's AJ30. Note that the MZI name is also used in Europe on Mazda's version of the Ford Sigma I4. The 3.0 L, 226 hp V6 used in the Mondeo ST220 is called Duratec ST. The 3.0 L, 204 hp V6 in the Mondeo Titanium is called Duratec SE."
#3510 of 20239 Re: The problem with the Saturn... [akirby]
Jul 19, 2007 (9:52 am)
Not to mention all the 2005 Toyota recalls
What recalls would those be? Don't think they actually recalled even the sludging problem they had on the previous generation of V6s. Recalls, in fact, tend to be related to safety issues. There has been a whole 1 recall on my 05 Avalon TMK (a steering column weld) and a coupla of non-safety related TSBs (Tranny programming and a timing chain cover leak). The car is actually doing better (after over 50k) that I would have anticipated being a completely new car with, at that time, an unproven drivetrain. Broke a cardinal rule (never buy a truly new model its first year), and only something that I would've even considered with a Toyota/Honda/Nissan product. So far so good. The same thing with a GM/Ford/Chrysler product? No way, I'll continue to trust a long established history!
#3511 of 20239 Re: The problem with the Saturn... [urnews]
Jul 19, 2007 (9:56 am)
"I consider that to be a positive, not a negative"
Depends how you look at it. On one hand you use an old powertrain to make your "new" vehicle reliable during its launch. On the other hand you end up with a vehicle that has 50 less HP, less refinement (IMO) and gets the same or worse FE compared to the competition.
#3512 of 20239 Re: The problem with the Saturn... [tjc78]
Jul 19, 2007 (11:24 am)
Depends how you look at it. On one hand you use an old powertrain to make your "new" vehicle reliable during its launch.
You are correct, it does depend on how you look at it. I prefer to see this particular glass of water as being half full instead of half empty. The refined 3.0-liter, 221-horsepower V6 Duratec engine in our 2007 Fusion produces plenty of "git up and go," is smooth and quiet while doing so.
Gas mileage, however, is not so good when coupled with AWD. It's 14.8 in all-city driving after seven months and 3,700 miles on the car. The revised EPA estimate for this power train is 17 mpg city; 24 mpg highway. Nothing to write home about.
Without AWD, 3.0-liter V6 owners typically get 20 mpg in town, according to the forums I visit. I fully expect this 2007 Fusion to last seven or eight years.
#3513 of 20239 Re: The problem with the Saturn... [mfletou1]
Jul 19, 2007 (12:09 pm)
I think the comparisson was between an AWD Fusion and 2WD Accord / Camrys. I think the logic was that the Fusion tested would still cost less than the Accord / Camrys tested. Would it be more fair to compare the 2WD Fusion that costs 4 grand less than the competitors? I dont know, but you have to admit, the Fusion is pretty good for what it is.......
#3514 of 20239 Re: Mazdaspeed6 or Altima 3.5SE manual? [waygrabow]
Jul 19, 2007 (12:11 pm)
...just dont ever try to trade out of the Mazdaspeed6. Trust me sir, I have experience concerning trading one in, and it aint pretty.
#3515 of 20239 Re: Aura owners? [benderofbows]
Jul 19, 2007 (12:16 pm)
Yes Sir. That's pretty much my point. Rebates dont really have a bad effect unless you didn't get them when you bought yours. If you can avoid the "buy high / sell low" situation, you can pretty much take the depreciation factor out of consideration on any vehicle you want to buy. Unless it's just absolutely outrageous depreciation like the Korean cars / Suzukis / Isuzus / Mitsubishis / and certain domestics, namely most Dodges and some unpopular GM and Ford cars.
#3516 of 20239 Re: Mazdaspeed6 or Altima 3.5SE manual? [advequityguy]
Jul 19, 2007 (1:10 pm)
guess youi must have owned that same Mazda 6 that one poster was claiming was worth more than he paid for it because silly Edmund's said so? It does surprise me thought that the depreciation hit would be as severe with the Mazdaspeed, a niche vehicle if there ever was one.
#3517 of 20239 Re: Mazdaspeed6 or Altima 3.5SE manual? [mchang]
Jul 19, 2007 (1:52 pm)
the prices seem about right for both, and both cars with a manual tranny be ready for a little tugging at the steering wheel. The Altima rates near (or at the top of its class -including Accords) depreciation wise - so if you are not likely to be keeping the car for 7+ years,the Altima should win hands down from a cost to own perspective. The Nissan VQ is still perhaps the most proven and reliable V6 available , while I'd be hesitant to buy a turbocharged anything.
And yes, I own a 03 3.5SE (auto) 25-26 mpg overall, 75k, and never been back to the dealer for anything - the way it should be. EXCEPT for some collison repairs after my wife got rearended - which is how I found out about the resale values, the darn insurance co. wouldn't total it because THEY thought it was still worth substantially more than the $11k it took to fix it. The wife, of course, had her heart set on a new 07 model at the time and STILL DOES even though they did a good job on the repairs. Somehow, I think I'm going to lose this battle - again!
I did get a chance to drive the new 08, found that the interior quality/fit & finish had improved tremendously - thought the CVTs behavior was a bit disconcerting, although I know she would love it - it is smoooooth. MTXs, of course, in big city traffic, out of the question for her and me.
#3518 of 20239 Re: The problem with the Saturn... [benderofbows]
Jul 19, 2007 (2:13 pm)
Same basic engine is true - it's the same block and maybe bottom end, but as you can see there are multiple versions with very different top end components.