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Sedans Midsize Sedans 2.0
13221 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 6:41 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Jul 18, 2007 4:02 am) I didn't even look at these when I bought my Accord in February, because I knew I'd want one! The Accord was also on my short list and since they were all marked $300 under invoice at the local dealer, and the Altimas were brand new and selling for MSRP, the deal made the final choice for me. RE: the Milan... you stated: "The 5-speed is pretty smooth to operate, but the car should either have a 6th gear or the gearing revised, because it revs higher than the 2.5S 6-speed at highway velocities, and I'm sure it affects both the NVH and fuel economy." When I drove the Fusion 5-speed I never got to highway speeds, what RPM was it running? At 80 MPH my Accord is spinning 3,000. I't doesn't bother me because NVH isn't an issue, and my old 626 V6 used to spin 4,000 at the same speed (7k redline). What RPM does the Nissan 2.5 6-speed turn in 6th?
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Replying to: benderofbows (Jul 18, 2007 6:50 am) Crap, you had to ask me that...  I don't remember exactly (since my wife was driving at the time), but IIRC, I THINK it was 3500 RPM at 75 MPH (give or take). What RPM does the Nissan 2.5 6-speed turn in 6th? I don't recall this one, but it was quieter than the Milan (in terms of engine noise) at speed. Between that, the 35 MPG rating for highway (compared to 31 for the Milan), and the extra cog, I'll assume that it's lower than the Milan. I could be wrong, but I'll find out for sure when I get the car. |
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and why I guy like me is just not going to want to buy one at this point, is long term reliability. When you've owned GM cars for a while, you start to learn that at first, everything seems great. At the time, my Intrigue was sort of the equivalent of what the Aura is today. It beat Camry in a CD comparo back in the day. It was Detroit's great hope. But what gradually drove people away was long term reliability. After a couple of years, things just starting going wrong. And wrong. And wrong. And so on. And now the same thing has started happening to our '04 Malibu Maxx. And the same thing happened to my wife's '00 Alero a few years ago. Is the '08 Aura a better car than those were? Well, generationally speaking, I don't know that you can say that. Its hardly groundbreaking considering its competition. But sure, its appealing. At this point, though, I want PROOF that it will hold up for a good 7-8 years. And obviously we won't get that proof for a while. So I'd really hesitate to buy it. |
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Jul 18, 2007 10:11 am) So I'd really hesitate to buy it. There's no way any mid-size car manufacturer can meet that standard, since the 2007 or 2008 or 2009 model is going to be considerably different than a 2000, 2001 or 2002 model. Assuming the Honda Accord to be the best 2000, there is no guarantee that the much-altered 2007 will equal its reliability, endurance, etc. because so many changes will have been made in the interim. Cars are like stocks: Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Buying any new mid-size is a crap shoot. Some makes and models are going to be better than others, no matter what. The 2007 Aura might be the best mid-size sedan GM has ever built and it may be trouble-free into 2014 but that doesn't necessarily mean that the 2014 model will fare as well.
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Replying to: urnews (Jul 18, 2007 10:47 am) If a manufactuer--say, Honda--consistenly builds reliable cars, every year, than there is a much, much greater chance--both statistically and rhetorically--that they will continue to do so. CR is generally willing to give reliability recommendations on new models when the previous model performed very well for the life of the car for that reason, and past performance is a very reliable indicator of (no pun intended) reliability. And really, this goes beyond mid-size cars. General Motors, for instance, has consistent long term reliability issues across all models--many of them are shared-component problems (ie, brakes). That could well change, but it will be a while before we know. It doesn't take 7-8 years (though I did mention that), I think we'll probably have a good idea in 3-4 or so. But what I speak of is an overall problem. According to many CSR's at GM dealers I've spoken with (and, unfortunately, I've gotten to know them very well), the problems we've experienced with our Malibu also show up on G6, Trailblazer, the minivans, etc. They're more systematic than anything else. The other issue which I didn't bring up is how a manufacturer treats these issues when they do come up. GM's got a ways to do here, also.
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Jul 18, 2007 12:46 pm) Several of Honda's outboard marine engines use basically what is in their cars. THe civic 4cyl is used in Honda's medium HP outboards and the Odyssey 3.5L v6 is the basis for the 225hp Honda outboard. If an engine can hold up to marine use and can pretty much withstand anything. Honda is always one of the tops in reliability in the marine category too. Amazingly, a HOnda 225hp outboard engine costs more than a whole civic. |
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Jul 18, 2007 10:11 am) Of course, as mentioned above, this is no gaurantee of how the Aura or any other GM built today will fare into the future. But past performance is really all we have to go by as far as estimating long-term reliability. How well can we estimate that? Probably not too well. An interesting note: during my short stint as a car salesman, I sold a Mustang GT automatic to a middle-aged man who used to calibrate the machines used to build engines at Ford. He was very specific on getting the 4.6L V8 instead of any other Ford engine for "durability purposes." He had no interest in the performance potential, and his wife was going to be the main driver. On the test drive, she didn't even rev it past 2,500 RPM. He stated, and I can't remember his source, that when domestic companies engineered car parts, they set certain ranges for the various parameters the engineers had to work with: what materials may be used, how much the finished part would cost to make, and how long it would last. The funny thing was, he told me, that if the part was designed outside of the ranges either way... too expensive OR too cheap, wears out too fast in testing OR lasts too long... it was rejected. They didn't want their cars to last too long or their parts sell too cheap. Is this true? I certainly don't know, and I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever. But after my experience with my 2004 Ford, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. |
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Replying to: mfletou1 (Jul 18, 2007 12:46 pm) Only makes sense to me as well - and it works in both directions. CR, for whatever fault or differences we all might have with their particular priorities, is the only organization I know of that does things like reliability studies/comparison tests/satisfaction surveys and is not beholden to anybody for whatever results they come up with. As such it should be taken seriously by those consumers valuing an 'intelligent' purchase decision. I have noticed that CR does have a tendency to 'recommend' a car earlier than they might otherwise if it happens to be from a mfgr. that has a superior track record as opposed to one that doesn't. I have no problem with this, but we probably also need to understand that sooner or later all things change and that as all cars are improving from a reliability standpoint,that this (reliability) may eventually become a non-factor especially for those of us that usually buy our cars new. It wasn't all that long ago that a car was deemed junk at 50 or 60k (and generally was), nowadays that's barely broken in... |
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| Let's be sure to keep the focus on the cars themselves, please... | |
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