Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 2:41 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#19458 of 20232 Re: Avalon [ab348]
Sep 30, 2013 (6:26 pm)
Riiiight.... I disagree with some of the mags from time to time but I have never heard of any of them even investigated for taking bribes or basing their reviews on advertising dollars. Lots of people come in these forums and take cheap, driveby shot at the mags with accusations but I've never seen them cite one single shred of evidence. Now if one wants to say they(the mags) don't know what they are doing or talking about, that's fine as it is an opinion. But it's easy to say something is "well known" or "common knowledge" without having to show any evidence of it. It was probably rumors back then just like it's rumors today. People love conspiracy theories when they don't agree with something.
#19459 of 20232 Re: Avalon [m6user]
Sep 30, 2013 (6:47 pm)
I would probably figure that car mags want to avoid biting the hand that feeds them. Some of the biggest and best advertising is from car companies. Nice glossy pullout pages touting the brand. Draw your own conclusions.
#19460 of 20232 Re: Avalon [backy]
Oct 01, 2013 (4:31 am)
It turns into scrap metal...thus saving the world by recycling. LOL.
#19461 of 20232 Re: Avalon [ab348]
Oct 01, 2013 (4:58 am)
Every car mag gets accused of this in every issue. I have read Car and Driver religiously for decades and always look through the letters to the editor first (called Backfires). There is always a letter from a reader making those accusations, mostly about BMW 3 series and Honda Accords winning the 10 best awards year after year. The magazine addresses the issue openly and I believe they really are impartial.
I have also read MT for many years, and I very much enjoy when their opinion differs from Car and Driver, giving me a different perspective sometimes.
If you really look at the comparo's closely, you will notice that sometimes a car wins by just one point over the winner that was chosen by a competing mag. To me it just adds choices. I just add the car to my list of ones to consider, giving me more options when it comes time to choose and sign that buyers order.
Oct 01, 2013 (5:05 am)
It can be problematic criticizing a car too heavily when the maker of that car pays your bills by placing ads in your magazine. I find that all car mags have good things to say about even the worst cars.
CR is the only exception and that is precisely why they don't accept advertising. They also call a spade a spade and have on several occasions rated cars as unacceptable.
No matter how bad the vehicle no car mag would ever rate a car as unacceptable if the maker placed ads in the mag.
#19463 of 20232 Re: Avalon [ab348]
Oct 01, 2013 (5:23 am)
It is mostly the new EPS (Electric Power Steering) systems they are criticizing as being numb and having no feel, but this was compounded by the Azera and the Cadenza being built on the Optima/Sonata platform and asking this platform to carry 500 more pounds of engine and a larger body without adding more cross structural beams and welds.
Now, they did say that the structural rigidity problem was only less as compared with the competition. The Impala and the Avalon are brand new chassis from the ground up, and their frames are far more rigid than say a 4 year old platform that has been modified to carry more weight than the Sonata and the Optima were designed for.
The Chrysler/Dodge contenders in the comparo are rear drive, so the steering had better feel because those wheels are not powered and have better response as the design doesn't have to filter out the rotating mass of axle's in the front drive competitors. Also, underneath the Chrysler's is a Mercedes platform that is very rigid.
#19464 of 20232 Re: Avalon [cski]
Oct 01, 2013 (5:48 am)
Nobody is impartial unless they're just publishing objective test data. CR is partial towards safety and repair history. C&D is biased towards performance.
The other problem is inconsistency. The same vehicle in the same magazine can get drastically different results depending on who's doing the test.
CR hates Fords with MFT because the touch screen makes you take your eyes off the road (not really true because you can control everything you need to control while driving from the steering wheel or voice but that's beside the point) and it's not safe. But the Tesla got a 99 out of 100 score and it only has one huge touch screen - no buttons at all.
Every review and personal opinion is biased and anything printed for public consumption is done for entertainment value and to generate revenue for the publisher. Once you understand that and take everything with a grain of salt you can make your own informed decisions.
#19465 of 20232 Re: Avalon [jayrider]
Oct 01, 2013 (5:54 am)
I totally agree with "drawing your own conclusions" as that is what forms one's opinion. But to say it is a fact or "well known" that a car is rated on the same scale as advertising dollars collected or that direct payoffs are involved in exchange for getting good press is pretty damning dialog.
Someone mentioned that CR pulls no punches. However, if one reads different forums they are constantly accused of bias towards Japanese cars bordering on some sort of conspiracy. They don't accept advertising dollars so how does that fit into this conspiracy theory. Add to that the fact that they just rated the Tesla and the Impala as two of the highest rated autos they have ever reviewed. Both American designed and built.
I think there is some bias in reviews but it tends towards likes and dislikes like handling versus power or looks versus reliability. Different mags tend to view different aspects of an automobile to be more important than others. Consider this, if any magazine was ever proven to give one manufacturer better reviews based on additional advertising dollars or kickbacks, payoffs, bribes, etc., that mag would be history. No other advertiser would waste their money and the car lovers that read these mags would stop reading it. The two kisses of death... disappearing readership and ad dollars.
#19466 of 20232 Re: Avalon [akirby]
Oct 01, 2013 (6:09 am)
" But the Tesla got a 99 out of 100 score and it only has one huge touch screen - no buttons at all."
I've seen you write this before. Just because something(car, computer, smartphone, etc) has a screen doesn't mean the interface and how it operates are the same. Some are well done, easy to see, fast, problem free interfaces while others not so much. I think CR believes Ford's fits into the latter category and from my brief experience with it I agree with them. Now, I didn't spend hours reading and "learning" it but I assume the salesman that couldn't get it to work either had spend some time with it. Maybe he just needed a few more hours.
While I can't disprove what you said about the same vehicle in the same magazine getting drastically different results, I have never really seen it. A little different maybe because, like you say, people notice slightly different things and may view things a little differently. But, when you say "drastically" I can't remember anything like that unless it was many years later and the vehicle turned out to be trouble prone or something.
I've owned about 40 different vehicles and I can't remember any that I didn't like a lot at first. After years of ownership I might come to the realization that it wasn't such a great car after all. I had to admit to myself that I made a mistake. I think professional car reviewers can make mistakes sometimes too but I don't start screaming that the reason for it is some sort of conspiracy.
#19467 of 20232 Re: Avalon [akirby]
Oct 01, 2013 (6:41 am)
Ok Kirby. I'll buy that there is bias in the car mags based on that mags primary priority, such as performance to Car and Driver.
The only good review I have seen on an Infotainment system is the MyLink system in the new Impala. (C/D June '13)
What's funny is that in the same issue they HATED the CUE system in the Cadillac ATS. They said "As excellent as herpes" in the summary. The two systems are cousins!!! So, the reviewer obviously can make a big difference in outcome, but I do not think that the mfr pays C/D for those good reviews.
*Buicks Intellilink is also related to CUE and MyLink