Last post on Dec 08, 2013 at 7:45 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#19324 of 20223 Re: Fused [kyrpto]
Sep 23, 2013 (2:58 am)
Here is what Edmund's had to say about the 2013 Sonata hybrid:
"These updates should add up to a better Sonata Hybrid, but it's still facing stiff competition from the similarly priced 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid (47 mpg combined EPA rating) and 2013 Toyota Camry Hybrid (41 mpg combined), which offer higher mpg ratings and a more refined driving experience. If the bottom line is important to you, keep in mind that the conventional Hyundai Sonata is a better value than the hybrid sedan, as it costs several thousand dollars less and has a respectable 28 mpg combined rating"
#19325 of 20223 Wheezy CVTs
Sep 23, 2013 (3:52 am)
Car & Driver on the HSH:
The 2013 Sonata hybrids acceleration and fuel-economy improvements are quantifiable and worth mentioning, but the cars better-integrated drivability makes a significant difference.
We already liked the smooth electric drive-off feel and the fact that the Sonata hybrid forgoes the usual wheezy CVT for a more-pleasing six-speed step-gear automatic, but Hyundai really hit the books to work out the kinks and smooth transitions between electric and gas-engine hybrid modes.
The clutch that takes the place of the torque converter engages more quickly; its interval, according to Hyundai powertrain director John Juriga, decreased from 1.0 to 0.7 second. The goal was for good response with no untoward delays or bumpy transitions.
#19326 of 20223 Re: New Mazda 6 [cski]
Sep 23, 2013 (5:07 am)
You can turn off the spouse, too but it's usually a very expensive and lengthy process.
#19327 of 20223 Re: New Mazda 6 [akirby]
Sep 23, 2013 (5:55 am)
I wonder how much it would cost to turn off krypto's shilling for Hyundai?
#19328 of 20223 Re: New Mazda 6 [akirby]
Sep 23, 2013 (7:11 am)
#19329 of 20223 Re: Fused [cski]
Sep 23, 2013 (7:12 am)
Yes, for someone like my wife and me who don't put more than about 8k miles on her Sonata a year, the price premium of the hybrid over the GLS is hard to justify unless you want some of the other features in the hybrid. I get upper 30s mpg on the highway with the GLS, mid 20s in town. These cars can be had for ~$18-19k new. (We are paying $47/month for a 3-year lease with 0 out of pocket, but did trade in a beat up 2007 Sonata GLS.)
But it's not just the Sonata hybrid where the math doesn't work out for me... over 9 years ago I nearly bought a then-all-new Prius hatchback, but it took too long to deliver so I started looking at alternatives and found a car about the same size (Elantra GT hatchback) with more features (moonroof, leather, 8-way drivers seat etc.) for $9k less. We still own it, put about 7-8k miles per year on it (my son does anyway). That $1000 a year more than paid for the entire gas bill for the Elantra over its lifetime. Plus I really enjoyed the moonroof and adjustable driver's seat when I was driving the car.
#19330 of 20223 Re: New Mazda 6 [ab348]
Sep 23, 2013 (7:17 am)
At least one of Krypto's recent posts reminded me that I need to make an appointment with my optometrist. I apparently have been missing those "eye catching" front and rear lights.
#19331 of 20223 Re: New Mazda 6 [gene103]
Sep 23, 2013 (7:42 am)
It was the interior of the Optima that really won me over verses the Sonata. I think Kia really worked hard on this car, kind of a make-it-or break-it all out effort, and it really paid off.
Like I have said before, I still get stopped at the grocery store/Walmart by folks who love the way it looks, and after I tinted the windows and added mud-guards, a factory spoiler, and gloss black b-pillar trim, it really looks like a car costing thousands more.
The Sonata just didn't have the features that I love in cars, like the fog lights and dual exhaust for the same money.
If anyone has any doubt of the cars beauty, here is my car so you can see for yourself. http://imgur.com/a/gadqq#OoEzbW7
#19332 of 20223 Hyundai’s' MPG Compensation Program
Sep 23, 2013 (7:48 am)
Response to ab348 complaint about MPG ratings:
As to the mpg exaggeration, Hyundai Corp voluntarily - I’ll repeat that for emphasis - VOLUNTARILY sent 2011 and 2012 owners Visa cash cards based on their cars’ mileage. MPG estimates for the vastly improved 2013 also appear to be underrated and these cars do not qualify for rebates. More on that below.
I do not recall Ford MC doing this when they also got caught over estimating MPG on certain models (CR found that the Lincoln MKZ hybrid mpg was off its EPA rating by a whopping 11 mpg).
I got just shy of $200 from them before trading in my 2011 which we consistently got 37 - 39 mpg year round. All us owners had to do was get the mileage verified a dealership. They came promptly - my second Visa card came in slightly less than two weeks after verification at an oil change.
Also note that is good for the life of the car for the original owner.
Following info on Hyundai MPG Estimates comes verbatim from a 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Overview on HybridCars.com:
Hyundai downgraded the 2012 Sonata Hybrids by 1 mpg on their EPA estimates.
In question now is whether, having been chastened by its lessons, and sending the Sonata Hybrid back to the drawing board, the 2013s may possibly under promise but over deliver.
The MPG advertising number game is a big part of the marketing for these cars, and Ford was similarly caught short with its “47 mpg” Fusion Hybrid.
We pressed Hyundai for details as to whether these specs add up to more than the conservative upticks in EPA estimates suggest. The last time Hyundai was accused of overpromising, it fully admitted its overstepping the bounds, and immediately got busy updating the cars to make good in full.
We asked whether instead of overstating mileage its self-certification for EPA numbers might be holding back a little in a more conservative stance?
Hyundai would not directly answer this pointed question, but Senior Manager, Midwest Product Public Relations Miles Johnson merely said, “All I can say is I can’t wait for you to drive it.”
#19333 of 20223 Re: Hyundai’s' MPG Compensation Program [kyrpto]
Sep 23, 2013 (7:57 am)
Hyundai was caught not following the EPA test procedures resulting in invalid EPA ratings. They Voluntarily sent checks because they had no other choice - the EPA would have probably fined them otherwise and it's good PR.
Ford has never been caught with incorrect EPA ratings on the 2013 Fusion or CMAX hybrid. The EPA ratings on the Fusion hybrid are correct and has already been scrutinized by the EPA. The CMAX used a loophole in the EPA rules that allowed them to use the same test results for both the Fusion and CMAX hybrid instead of using CMAX test ratings that were lower. This was perfectly legal but not the right thing to do so Ford also compensated owners.