Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 7:13 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#19139 of 20237 Accord(s) Test Drive - TheGraduate perspective
Aug 27, 2013 (1:48 pm)
I drove identically equipped white Accords (EXL, and EXL V6) at a local Honda dealer on Saturday. I like the 4, but the V6 was incredibly fun. I liked it, but wasn't as blown away as I thought I would be. Previously, I'd tested the LX and EX 4-cyl models.
For comparison's sake, I have a 3.3L Sonata GLS (2009). It's the fastest car I've ever owned; and at 6.6 seconds or so to 60mph, it's certainly as fast as I could ever need.
In comparison with the Sonata I own, I'll make a pros-cons list about why I have reached the conclusion I have reached about the Accord.
Styling - I like understated designs; they don't age poorly like some more radical ones can.
Fuel Economy - I am impressed at the numbers offered on these vehicles, especially considering their available power.
Interior Space - They have huge interior spaces, especially the rear seat. However, my Sonata feels more "airy" to me, partly because the dashboard is less invasive.
Driving Dynamics - The Accord is a sports car in comparison to my Sonata, although the steering is lighter than I'd prefer.
Features per Dollar - I was driving cars with sticker prices near or above $30,000, (and transaction prices are high - more on that later), and it lacked a cohesive infotainment system like UVO or UConnect, Cooled/Ventilated seats (I live in the south and really want this feature), panaramic roof, or a great-sounding audio system. For the "upgraded unit" in the Accord, I couldn't tell it was notably better/clearer when playing the same CD as in my Sonata.
A touch of Cheapness - The sunroof cover was by far the flimsiest I've felt on a 20k-30k car. The one in my Hyundai (a "cheap" car in 2009) feels far more sturdy. The back seat of the Accord V6 we drove also had a rattle neither me nor my fiance could find. The trunk and rear seat was empty.
Not built for the tall guy - The seatbelt adjuster didn't go high enough to go over my shoulder, even with it in the highest position, and the seat in the lowest, the belt hit me right at the top of my left arm. This alone will prevent me from ever buying this generation Accord. The telescoping wheel was nice (my GLS Sonata lacks the feature, but it was available on SE and Limited in 2009). The driver's seat lacked about an inch in rear travel from fitting my legs comfortably. I'm 6'4", and had the same issue in my 2006 Accord. I wouldn't buy a car with the same issue this time, knowing how well I have fit in some competitors.
All of those things don't make the Accord a bad car, just not the car for me.
My fiance liked the Accord however, and we were willing to let the salesman try and meet us at a price point we were happy with on an EX-L V6 that was in stock. I told him I'd shopped around using Edmunds, Truecar, and other tools, and thought 27,500 + tax was a fair price on the car, especially considering that there would be $15,000 down on the car.
He returned from the sales manager's office with the following:
$33,190 (including $2300 in dealer add-ons (mudguards, trunk tray, sealant and nitrogen in tires, that's it!).
-$1500 dealer discount
$31690 price of car
$1300 (approx, I forget the exact amount, but it was 13xx.xx) in taxes, title
$699.10 doc fee
$33,689.10 out the door, approximately, depending on what taxes were.
Keep in mind, this was not a car equipped with NAVI, or the Touring.
We left, because the deal was pretty insulting, and I liked, not loved, the car.
#19140 of 20237 Re: Accord(s) Test Drive - TheGraduate perspective [thegraduate]
Aug 27, 2013 (2:28 pm)
graduate: Thanks for the good report. You're right that is not a good price for that model. Here's what carsdirect says they think they can get it for in my neck of the woods:
2013 Honda Accord Price
EX-L V-6 4dr Sedan w/6-Spd Automatic
Target Price: $27,642
As you know, that's just about what you were offering.
Sounds like you're moving on to other cars, but if for some reason you decide to come back to the Accord a site like cars direct or carwoo would probably be able to get you a price near your target.
#19141 of 20237 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [cski]
Aug 27, 2013 (2:33 pm)
Arguably the KIA Optima was ahead of the last generation Accord in several areas just a year ago. And they're still tied in most ways. And an all-new Optima is due in a year or so, and so who knows what things will look like then?
It's a the most competitive it's ever been for the midsize cars, and the winners are all the people buying one, no matter what the brand....
#19142 of 20237 Re: Accord(s) Test Drive - TheGraduate perspective [thegraduate]
Aug 27, 2013 (2:45 pm)
This is why I am not a proponent of talking numbers at the dealership - it is mostly a waste of time. You did well on the test drive and sounds like you accomplished what you set out to do - get a feel for the car.
Serious negotiation can be done via email working exclusively with the Internet Sales Dept folks. A good dealer will have a good Internet Dept and those folks will be motivated to offer the best pricing. That way once you've settled on what you want, the numbers are finalized before going to the dealer.
#19143 of 20237 Re: Accord(s) Test Drive - TheGraduate perspective [benjaminh]
Aug 27, 2013 (3:06 pm)
His offer also depends on including the dealer add on's or not.
27500 + 2300 or not.
Either way, 1500 vs 3000+ discount doesn't work.
#19144 of 20237 midsize sales leader for 2014?
Aug 27, 2013 (3:18 pm)
The Camry seems all but certain to win the midsize sales race for 2013. Here's where things stand for the first seven months of this year:
But Ford is ramping up Fusion production in Flat Rock, and next year will have the capacity to make 100,000 Fusions there to add to the 350,000 already made in Mexico. Nissan also has the capacity to build 450,000 Altimas, although demand is not hitting that pace at this point. Honda can make at least 400,000 Accords in Ohio, and perhaps make more at another factory in the US or import some from Japan. In other words, they can make 450,000 too, but they've said they won't cut prices to do it.
Last year, Camry won the sales race with annual sales of 404,886. And this year the Camry is slightly beating that pace. Toyota has the capacity to build as many as 475,000 Camrys. Toyota has said they'll do whatever it takes to stay #1, which means big money on the hood. But the competition is breathing down their neck. Looks like 2014 is going to be very close.
“We have an automobile market unlike any other in the last 40 years, where everybody is equal in that they all have terrific cars,” said Maryann Keller, principal at auto-industry consulting firm Maryann Keller & Associates in Stamford, Connecticut. “Now, everybody is fighting for every sale.”
The Fusion has prompted Toyota to acknowledge the challenge it faces to maintain leadership for its Camry sedan, which has reigned as the top-selling U.S. passenger car for 11 years and 15 of the last 16.
“It is true that rival carmakers have come out with very competitive models in the segment, and that competition in the U.S. mid-size sedan segment is becoming fiercer,” Nobuyori Kodaira, a Toyota executive vice president, said last week in Tokyo. “What we need to do is to come out with even more competitive models.”
The additional production from Flat Rock could allow Ford to stretch for as much as 450,000 units of combined annual Fusion output from the Michigan factory and its Hermosillo plant in Mexico, said Jeff Schuster, an analyst for LMC Automotive. The researcher estimates that Toyota has capacity in North America to build about 475,000 Camrys per year, while Honda can assemble about 450,000 Accords...."
#19145 of 20237 Re: midsize sales leader for 2014? [benjaminh]
Aug 27, 2013 (3:43 pm)
Even at 450K, Fusion will not be even close to Ford's best selling vehicle.
#19146 of 20237 Re: midsize sales leader for 2014? [benjaminh]
Aug 27, 2013 (4:26 pm)
Fusion capacity is only about 250K right now due to MKZ production. Ford will not give up profit just to be #1. Fusion transaction prices are about $2500 higher than Camry (give or take).
I saw a new Camry prototype in a focus group a couple of weeks ago. The competition has nothing to be worried about.
#19147 of 20237 Re: Accord(s) Test Drive - TheGraduate perspective [gmanusmc]
Aug 28, 2013 (5:38 am)
(((This is why I am not a proponent of talking numbers at the dealership - it is mostly a waste of time. You did well on the test drive and sounds like you accomplished what you set out to do - get a feel for the car.
Serious negotiation can be done via email working exclusively with the Internet Sales Dept folks. A good dealer will have a good Internet Dept and those folks will be motivated to offer the best pricing. That way once you've settled on what you want, the numbers are finalized before going to the dealer. )))
I agree; however I've noticed dealers in my area don't respond well via internet. They just want to call you. And call...and call...and call. I don't respond to those dealers normally, but writing them off has quickly shut down most dealers I'd prefer to use based on reputation. The easiest to work with dealer has been Hendrick in Hoover, AL. They sell Chrysler products (including a Ram I'm very interested in). Their sales people approach you without the pressure or cheesy schtick of most car salespeople. As a result, they may end up with my business.
In the past, I have bought cars via e-mail. My parents' Taurus was negotiated via E-Mail, my Sonata was as well.
A note: the dealer whom I visited Saturday have of-course called me and asked me to return their call in a voicemail.
#19148 of 20237 Re: Accord(s) Test Drive - TheGraduate perspective [benjaminh]
Aug 28, 2013 (5:41 am)
Well, the salesman was very quick to blow off TrueCar. When I told him that there were dealers that would match the TrueCar price that day, he said "well they will have add-ons and doc fees also."
Wrong answer. Don't talk down to me when trying to earn my business, and don't tell me what another dealer will do.
I responded back, letting him know that even if the other dealers still had 2300 in add-ons and wanted 27,432 for the car, they'd be beating the Serra Honda offer by over 1,000, and with that, I wouldn't buy either car.
He lost sight of the fact that I have two vehicles that are serviceable, one that I'd be comfortable driving across the country (the Sonata) even though I'd disclosed that to him earlier.