Last post on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:56 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#19116 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [gogophers1]
Aug 23, 2013 (3:57 pm)
But Honda's manuals are among the very best in the whole auto biz. Test drive one and see. Mazda's are probably equal.
Imho you should not let color or lack of xm hold you back if you want one of the best manual trans in a midsize. It gets to 60 a full second faster than a manual Fusion. Clear choice in my book.
The Mazda6 is also a great choice for a manual.
#19117 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [plekto]
Aug 23, 2013 (3:28 pm)
"...Honda and Toyota are unfortunately falling into Mercedes-Itis, where they are charging extra for their image alone. And in the $20K or so segment, that's a tough pill to swallow. Especially when their cars are such a giant piece of Tupperware. Great engines, but you might as well be inside a GM rental car.
IMO, the extra few hundred dollars for a Fusion over a Camry or Accord is a no-brainer."
Don't agree. And this seems like a mixed message of Honda charging more and yet the Fusion costs even more than that?
Accord has more ultra-high grade steel than the Fusion, and does better on the IIHS crash test. The Accord also gets to 60 faster, gets better mpg, has better visibility, and more standard features.
Fusion makes you pay extra for the "good" engine, while with the Accord it's standard.
The Fusion is a very good car, but it's far from a "no brainer."
The interior is a matter of taste. No clear winner there.
Aug 23, 2013 (3:54 pm)
They weren't that fond of every element of the Fusion's interior. Again, it's a very good car, but saying it's better than an Accord is a matter of opinion. Car and Driver ranked the Accord above the Fusion. But then again Car and Driver also ranked the brand-new Mazda6 above even the Accord!
"...Packaging is the Fusion’s biggest weakness. Somehow, it has the longest wheelbase by 1.8 inches and ties with the Passat for longest overall length, yet manages to feel like it has the smallest back seat in the group. Knees rub the front seatbacks, and forget using the middle seatbelt. The front buckets are set farther back behind thick B-pillars, and that—plus wide, plastic sill extensions—makes getting out more of a squirm job, especially if you’re short. The Fusion also has the smallest fuel tank and the narrowest trunk opening, items that can become daily annoyances.
Our preproduction test car suffered multiple neural crises, at times flashing warning lights as if it were Christmas in Times Square. Attention Dearborn: Fix this stuff before showtime...."
The last part sounds very like my all-new 2000 Ford Focus ZTS with more than dozen recalls and all sorts of glitches. I'm sure Fords are better now, but this reminds me why I swore off of them.
Again, the Fusion is a very good car! One of the tops in the whole segment. In some areas it is better than the Accord (styling, perhaps, and some elements of the interior), but it's far from the only best choice in the midsize segment.
#19119 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [benjaminh]
Aug 23, 2013 (4:17 pm)
Just about all the Fusions I see are SE or Titanium models.
#19120 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [nyccarguy]
Aug 24, 2013 (7:47 am)
Take my brand new car into a body shop and have it resprayed? I gasp at that comment...
Actually, Honda *isn't* building what they can sell; they're still trying to sell what they build (and it's a rather old school way of doing things) - I highly doubt I'm the only guy out there who likes stick shifts but doesn't like gray cars. There's no difference between the body shell of a CVT EX and a manual EX and I'm pretty sure they both roll down the very same line. Whatever tiny amount Honda saves by eliminating color options for manual equipped cars is very likely lost by the higher marginal costs associated with selling fewer total units.
#19121 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [gogophers1]
Aug 24, 2013 (8:48 am)
You've got it right: you should buy something else. And you're also right that it's too bad Honda lost a customer. I special ordered a 2008 Accord EXL navi with the manual trans in white. At that time you could get all colors and virtually all trim levels in a manual. That day is gone, which is too bad, but since it is gone and will almost certainly never come back you'll need to move on.
#19122 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [plekto]
Aug 24, 2013 (8:26 am)
I like the Fusion (it wouldn't be on my short list if I didn't), but I couldn't disagree with you more on the new Accord. While the Fusion is a better driver's car overall (I've driven several 2013s - even a 1.6L Ecoboost with a manual), the manual equipped Accord is a much faster ride (and in real world driving, I suspect it would also get better mileage than than Fusion regardless of their "official" EPA certifications). But there are a number of other factors to consider too.
The Fusion SE's sound system is very poor - it has the same number speakers as an Accord EX, but the Accord's speakers are larger and their placement produces better overall sound (the rears are in the deck rather than in the rear doors like the Fusion).
True, Honda's LaneWatch system is gimmicky, but no more so (I'd say far less so) than Ford's Buck Rogers turn signal stalk. I may never use LaneWatch, but I'd be forced to contend with BR every time I drove the Fusion.
Furthermore, regardless of what anyone from Planet Ford tries to assure me, I don't believe the average Fusion is going to be as reliable as the average Accord. I could only hope that if I buy a 2014 Ford, it's going to be far more reliable than the piece of garbage 2010 they sold me a few years ago.
Ford bet big on touch screen infotainment and miniature turbochargers a few years ago and their once improving quality got put on the back burner. Unfortunately, neither of those bets has turned out well for them. Their turbos are developing a reputation for getting the same or worse real world mileage than their competitors' more powerful regularly aspirated motors and I have concerns that the driveability problems being reported by many 3.5L Ecoboost owners may not be unique.
The icing on the proverbial cake is that if you do get a problematic Fusion, you're going to get hit again if you try to ditch it because Ford's fleet sales are so much higher than that of Honda.
Again, I don't hate the Fusion - I very much enjoyed the Ecoboost manual I drove a few months ago. If I had more faith in Ford products, I probably wouldn't be as weighing the sacrifices (SiriusXM; color choices with the Accord and sunroof; SiriusXM with the Mazda 6 Sport) I'd have to make by choosing one of its competitors.
#19123 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [gogophers1]
Aug 24, 2013 (9:02 am)
"Furthermore, regardless of what anyone from Planet Ford tries to assure me, I don't believe the average Fusion is going to be as reliable as the average Accord. I could only hope that if I buy a 2014 Ford, it's going to be far more reliable than the piece of garbage 2010 they sold me a few years ago."
One thing I came to realize as I faced recall after recall on my new Ford Focus a dozen years ago, is that a car is an astonishingly complex piece of machinery today. There are thousands of parts, each of which must work perfectly with all the others. And when it comes down to it you are betting your life and the life of some other people on those parts being well made and working together. Suddenly the slight extra cost of a Honda seemed worth it to me. Honda sometimes makes mistakes too, and they've had their failures with transmissions, airbags, and other things, but overall their reputation for quality is more or less deserved.
Ford has improved in the last ten years, but as you experienced, and as the experience of Car and Driver shows, it hasn't always been consistent.
#19124 of 20241 Re: 2014 Honda Accord [benjaminh]
Aug 24, 2013 (11:38 am)
I agree that Honda manuals are among the best, but I honestly had no clear preference in the linkage or clutch take-up between the Fusion SE 1.6 Ecoboost, Honda Accord Sport and Mazda 6 Sport when I drove them a few months ago - they were all fine.
Were I able to get the Mazda 6 manual with a sunroof and SiriusXM, it would be the clear winner over the others (and I love the steel blue color available on the 6...) - it has the most serious, driver oriented interior and it just feels more "me" than the other two. Alas, I cannot.
Interestingly, Mazda has made the Touring trim (like the Sport, it's also not available with a sunroof) available now with a stick but not the Grand Touring - whoop dee doo, I say. If I wanted a $25K new car with a vinyl (ahem, leatherette) interior and no sunroof, I'd be looking at Passats.
Aug 24, 2013 (2:27 pm)
I went to Tirerack to check out the my OEM 19" Continental tires on my Fusion.
They are rated for 40k miles and are listed at $245 each.
A comparable Michelin is $20 cheaper per tire and are rated for 55k.
This may change by the time i need tires, but I'm glad I started my tire replacement account.