Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#18014 of 20239 Re: Passat [backy]
Apr 24, 2013 (7:45 am)
If your handle were gregg_chevy, would you think differently?
I get your point, but I don't think so. The Impala was designed to be rental/fleet fodder, as well as appeal to older people who want something simple, GM and relatively cheap. The details, the things that delight people, are not there. The new Impala (2014) is light years better.
I put the vw behind my name years ago, when I owned a very faithful and frugal TDI. I am more a Volvo or Jaguar type customer now, but I continue to marvel at how long it has taken other manufacturers to install the type of quality interior materials that VW marketed since at least the late 90s. I also was disappointed to see VW cheapen its interior ambiance with the latest Jetta...though running changes have considerably improved it, just as Honda has done with the 2012 hard plastic Civic interior.
That said, I don't understand the criticism of Passat sales numbers. If you look at the previous Passat, it wasn't even a player, selling in very small numbers. The huge jump in sales with the latest Passat is remarkable, but to expect those numbers to begin to be comparable to Camry/Accord or Fusion is not realistic.
Look how many years it has taken Fusion to nudge up against some of the heavyweights. Look at the remarkable job Kia has done with the Optima in boosting sales. Still, Optima's big leap is not enough to threaten the top dogs. In order for Optima or Passat or Mazda6 to become true heavyweights, Altima or Camry or Accord or Fusion would have to be knocked way down...it is a limited market after all. That is unlikely, given they are all good machines with good reputations and customer satisfaction.
It is great to have so many choices, especially when each choice is so good by itself. The new Chrysler 200 is supposed to be a nice machine. A new Legacy is probably not that far away.
Competition improves the lot. The Malibu will be significantly improved later this year. It's all good.
#18015 of 20239 Re: Passat [gregg_vw]
Apr 24, 2013 (8:18 am)
I had a green 96 Passat TDI. It had a paltry 90 HP, but the gas mileage was phenomenal for a full size sedan. It shifted great, had good torque, and didn't have any problems until 133k. After I spent $2k to repair it; I donated it to my niece for college. She still drives it today.
Apr 24, 2013 (8:36 am)
Personally did not even consider a VW when comparing. The 2.5 gas engine is from 2005 hence the poor mileage/performance. I hear there is a new model for 2014. A friend had a TDI last year, fun car to drive but high initial cost and a diesel which currently runs about $.75 more per gallon. He got rid of it because the ground effects were being ruined by low clearance/ ice chunks etc. Also the long term repair costs with VW are a consideration. The torque is enticing but I'm sticking with petrol motors.
#18017 of 20239 Re: Passat [tundradweller1]
Apr 24, 2013 (1:43 pm)
The 2.5 has never been a class-leading engine in any of its iterations, even when the 2005 Jetta debuted with it. Quoting Motor Trend:
"The five suffices to move the Jetta around, but it's relentlessly grumpy about doing so. Our test car was sticky on throttle tip-in, causing pause-then-jerk-away starts however velvetly the right foot probed, and, once wound to its early-to-bed 5800-rpm redline, you'll be tempted to put a bullet through the firewall to still the racket. At redline, the five sings an unearthly moan, sounding like a duet of hoarse-throated ghosts."
#18018 of 20239 Re: Passat [thegraduate]
Apr 24, 2013 (3:28 pm)
The 2.5 is not state of the art, but really, the 2005 version was even weaker and noisier than that engine is today. The present iteration is right in the ballpark when compared to the Camry 4. The others, not so much.
But look at how Camry sells like hotcakes anyway, even though it has one of the weakest and uninteresting 4's out there right now. Most people who buy midsize sedans don't care, as long as it motivates the thing better than a smart car, and doesn't moan too loud at each throttle stab. Camry drivers are not car people, but they do recognize that their car is still light years better than 4 cylinder mid-sizers of 20 years ago.
Apr 24, 2013 (4:50 pm)
I would hope a Germanic car manufacturer would have raised the bar above a Camry but who am I to judge. Being a Motorcycle nut cars are rather utilitarian to me. Still, I prefer something enticing to drive like the Mazda 6.
I rode in a new Ford Escape this week for half a day with a rep that rented it. It was loaded, had a weird powered window shade type cover for the sun roof that seemed it would fail in no time. The "touch" ford controls on the dash were a absolute cluster F. We could not even figure out how to turn the heat down and drove with the windows cracked. Passenger side floor plan caused me to point my feet inward. Weak, moaning motor. What a P.O.S.
#18020 of 20239 Re: Passat [tundradweller1]
Apr 24, 2013 (4:56 pm)
How long did you spend trying to figure out the hvac controls? 30 seconds? Most people can figure it out in just a few minutes. It's not rocket science.
#18021 of 20239 Re: Passat [akirby]
Apr 24, 2013 (7:44 pm)
If you own a car, and drive it every day, learning all those buttons isn't an issue. Where it's a problem is for people who rent cars a lot, business travelers like me. I appreciate simple controls, e.g. the 3 rotary HVAC controls used in some cars like the new Mazda6, and on Nissans like my Sentra. Not very sexy, but intuitive. IMO there's way too many clever control layouts on cars these days. I think Ford is perhaps the worst offender there, but GM isn't far behind. Hyundai has backtracked in that respect, from a very simple control layout on the previous Sonata, for example, to lots more buttons today.
#18022 of 20239 Re: Passat [backy]
Apr 24, 2013 (8:43 pm)
I agree it takes longer to learn it in a new car - especially a rental. But it's still only 5 minutes, not hours.
I think part of the problem is people try to manually control the automatic climate control instead of just changing the temp up or down like you would control your home hvac.
Apr 25, 2013 (4:18 am)
True it takes time to acclimate. Still I believe taking this trendy, starship enterprise, approach honestly borders on being unsafe considering the visual time required to locate and run the controls. Granted I really do like the more simplistic touch screen on the 6 but at least they separated the HVAC controls.
Maybe I'm just cantankerous with yet another 8" snowfall here on May 19th