Last post on Jun 18, 2013 at 11:38 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#17585 of 18433 Re: Honda CVT shudder/hesitation [cski]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Feb 20, 2013 (3:07 pm)
Good call - thanks for doing my job for free!
#17586 of 18433 Re: pirelli? [pegasus17]
Feb 20, 2013 (3:14 pm)
I replaced my original set of Michelans on my 2009 Fusion SEL V6 about 15,000 miles ago with the Continental Extreme Contact DWS. I was looking for a good All Season Tire that would give me decent traction in the snow and would handle nearly as well as the Michelans. Plus I didn't want to break the bank and to replace the Michelans was going to be $260 mounted, balanced, and tax each. I got the Continentals through my Ford dealer because Ford guarantees they will beat any other local tire price. I spent $690 for the set OTD. I highly recommend these tires. They ride and handle just as well as the Michelans plus are very good in the snow. The Michelans were terrible in the snow since they were considered a summer performance tire.
#17588 of 18433 Re: pirelli? [mtnman1]
Feb 21, 2013 (9:26 am)
How many miles did you get out of your Michelin's? I am hoping to get 25-30k out of my stock tires..... I can't wait to see how much of a difference it will make to go with Michelin Pilot or the Continentals you mentioned. My choice will be depending on price, and after getting more data on real-world wear. Also, my car's stability control can't be completely shut off (but traction control can), so paying for a tire that can handle .96 g of lateral grip on a car whose computer ends the fun at .83 is a waste of $. Pirelli is really my 3rd choice; now that I think about it! $690 is a good deal. Since you have the V6 Fusion SEL, I assume you have 17" tires.....possibly 215/55/17 94-V? That is my size as well.
#17589 of 18433 Re: pirelli? [cski]
Feb 21, 2013 (9:39 am)
so paying for a tire that can handle .96 g of lateral grip on a car whose computer ends the fun at .83 is a waste of $
I thought the computer safety nannies jumped in AFTER any slip is detected. So upgrading the tires should give you more 'play' room.
On my previous RWD car if I hammered it like a maniac it would intervene after a slight chirp and wiggle of the rear end. Similarly it intervened at much lower speeds when it was wet out side...because it detected the tire slip situation.
I think if it were just looking at your g's you'd end up spinning out of control on slippery surfaces.
#17590 of 18433 Re: pirelli? [cski]
Feb 21, 2013 (5:32 pm)
I had 35,500 miles on my odometer when the new were put on. I think I could have gotten another 5K out of the Michelans but it was January of 2012 and I feared going into the snowiest time of the winter here with tires that were crappy in the snow when new. My tire size is 225/50ZR17. By the way my Fusion has been a great vehicle. How do you feel about yours?
#17591 of 18433 Lateral G's/stability control/traction control
Feb 21, 2013 (5:56 pm)
On the Optima it has a lateral G sensor, as do all stability control programs. When the system detects .82 of lateral G, it commands the system to apply the brakes, killing the fun. .96 lat/g tires are a waste of money. Stability control (helps) keep your average idiot from killing his family entering a corner with too much speed.
You are confusing stability control with AWD, which adjusts to an ACTUAL loss of grip. Then we enter the world of locking diff's as well.
I can turn off the traction control completely though...so I can do hella burn outs.
#17592 of 18433 Re: Lateral G's/stability control/traction control [cski]
Feb 21, 2013 (6:56 pm)
Ford's stability control does not measure G forces. It measures yaw rate with several sensors including steering. It will not kick in until the vehicle actually understeers or oversteers so the better the tires the higher the Gs.
#17593 of 18433 Fusion confusion...Lat G Sensor
Feb 22, 2013 (5:23 am)
Ford calls its sensor the L.A.S...Lateral Acceleration Sensor. It is the same thing. . My car also has a yaw sensor.
From Wikipedia "ESC incorporates yaw rate control into the anti-lock braking system (ABS). Yaw is a rotation around the vertical axis; i.e. spinning left or right. Anti-lock brakes enable ESC to brake individual wheels. Many ESC systems also incorporate a traction control system (TCS or ASR), which senses drive-wheel slip under acceleration and individually brakes the slipping wheel or wheels and/or reduces excess engine power until control is regained. However, ESC achieves a different purpose than ABS or Traction Control.
The ESC system uses several sensors to determine what the driver wants (input). Other sensors indicate the actual state of the vehicle (response). The control algorithm compares driver input to vehicle response and decides, when necessary, to apply brakes and/or reduce throttle by the amounts calculated through the state space (set of equations used to model the dynamics of the vehicle). The ESC controller can also receive data from and issue commands to other controllers on the vehicle such as an all wheel drive system or an active suspension system to improve vehicle stability and controllability.
The sensors used for ESC have to send data at all times in order to detect possible defects as soon as possible. They have to be resistant to possible forms of interference (rain, holes in the road, etc.). The most important sensors are:
Steering wheel angle sensor: determines the driver's intended rotation; i.e. where the driver wants to steer. This kind of sensor is often based on AMR-elements.
Yaw rate sensor : measures the rotation rate of the car; i.e. how much the car is actually turning. The data from the yaw sensor is compared with the data from the steering wheel angle sensor to determine regulating action.
Lateral acceleration sensor: often an accelerometer
Wheel speed sensor : measures the wheel speed.
Other sensors can include:
Longitudinal acceleration sensor: similar to the lateral acceleration sensor in design but can offer additional information about road pitch and also provide another source of vehicle acceleration and speed.
Roll rate sensor: similar to the yaw rate sensor in design but improves the fidelity of the controller's vehicle model and correct for errors when estimating vehicle behavior from the other sensors alone."
The truth is that all of these sensors work together with ABS and (Traction Control System) and many even cut power to mitigate yaw. My car cuts power if it detects over .82 or if the system detects loss of grip...whichever comes first.