Last post on Jun 19, 2013 at 6:38 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#17565 of 18437 Mazda6 and Lincoln MKZ
Feb 19, 2013 (10:57 am)
Hey guys. Have you all seen the new Lincoln MKZ? I know this is mid-size sedans, but we all know that it's a Fusion underneath. The last MKZ was almost stupidly half-a**, but this one is something else. It deserves the Lincoln name, and I hope Ford can pull off it's new "Lincoln Motor Company" strategy.
Here is a link to C/D first drive. I love it. Make mine black and it looks like a modern bat-mobile.
Also, read the full review of the 2014 Mazda6. I like it. It looks great in red and the instrument cluster is very BMW looking. Also, the side view reminds me of the Monte-Carlo's of '75-'85...in a good way.
#17566 of 18437 Re: Actual 2013 Nissan Altima CVT video..... [bb49]
Feb 19, 2013 (11:15 am)
Since the Accord's CVT is a new design for Honda, I would wait a few years to see if Honda has worked out any potential "bugs" in it
Car testers of various publications do not like CVT transmissions.
I own a 2001 Odyssey and have had to replace the transmission 3 times already.
Have a 2000 Ody with 87K miles. Transmission has been perfect, no problems. Never drive abusively, though I have helped some folks do moving, loading up the Ody with furniture, cabinets, dressers, etc. Never have towed anything with it.
In my and wife sample of 6 V6 equipped Hondas and Acuras, still have 3 (Acuras, Ody), the auto transmissions have been perfect. In over half million miles of driving.
An 86 Accord (4 cyl of course) we had, the auto transmission did fail at 217K miles and needed a rebuilt replacement from Honda. I think 217K failure was acceptable back in the 1990's.
#17567 of 18437 Honda transmissions
Feb 19, 2013 (1:22 pm)
Some Odyssey transmissions 10+ years ago were bad. No doubt about it. And it took them a while to get the design down. But for the last few years Honda autos have been more rugged and longer lasting.
I think the new CVT will be long lasting too, but it's true that it's a new design and so it's something of an unknown. I read somewhere that Honda put huge R & D into the composite material belt of their new CVT to make it last longer. In other words, it's designed to take it and last.
Honda manuals are the best in the biz. Better than BMW many say....
#17568 of 18437 Re: Why not this deal? [cski]
Feb 19, 2013 (1:39 pm)
Leather, but no heated seats?? I thought Hyundai/Kia stopped doing that with the old Elantra GT, that had leather standard but no heated seats available. I have one of those. The leather feels cold on those winter mornings! (Hyundai at least has seen the error of their ways and now includes heated seats standard on the Elantra GT, even with cloth.)
#17569 of 18437 Re: Actual 2013 Nissan Altima CVT video..... [plekto]
Feb 19, 2013 (2:16 pm)
A little something I found on the internet about honda transmissions. My 2000 accord 4 cyl had 3 replacement transmission in it before hitting 100k miles.
Honda Accord, Civic & Odyssey Transmission Failure
Widespread Transmission Problems Leave Honda Owners Up in Arms
Transmission failure with the Honda Accord, Civic and Odyssey is a widespread problem in models made from 1999-2004. The 2003 Honda Accord, 2001 Honda Civic and 2002 Honda Odyssey appear to be the worst years for transmission failure.
This is an issue with automatic transmissions and owners are reporting an average repair cost of $2,291. More than half the reported problems are happening under 90k miles, with 1 in 5 breaking down before the odometer hits 70k.
What Causes This Transmission Problem
If your engine will rev up, but the car won't shift into gear or move it could be a defective torque converter. In fact, the majority of Honda owners with transmission problems are saying the torque converter is failing and essentially burning up the transmission fluid, rendering the entire transmission useless.
What is Honda Doing to Fix the Problem?
Honda has offered some owners out-of-warranty compensation for the transmission repairs. Rather than going through your local dealership, it's best to contact Honda Customer Service at (800) 999-1009 and ask for a "goodwill repair". If you can provide proof that you followed Honda's recommended maintenance schedule, Honda may offer to pay a portion of the repair bill -- typically 50%, although some 2003 vehicle owners have reported having up to 75% covered.
Watch out for Honda dealerships' abnormally high repair bill though. As one owner put it, "Honda has offered to cover half the repair cost. The problem is they want $5,000 to fix it. Are they nuts???" An independent repair shop will generally do the same replacement for $2,500 or less. Just make sure you get a comparable warranty on parts because the rebuilt replacement transmissions can fail just as quickly, if not sooner.
2004 Honda Transmission Recall
In 2004, Honda finally admitted to the problem with their 600,000 vehicle recall. Honda decided to recall the transmissions, at an estimated cost of $153 million to the company, after finding “10 transmission failures” according to Honda spokesman Chuck Schifsky. We're not sure where Mr. Schifsky is getting his information, because we've seen hundreds and hundreds of owner complaints. Honda later expanded the recall to include nearly 1.1 million vehicles.
The models covered were the 2002-4 Odyssey; the 2003–4 Pilot; the 2001–2 Acura MDX; the 2003–4 Accord V-6; the 2000–4 Acura 3.2 TL and the 2001–3 Acura 3.2 CL.
Unfortunately Honda's transmission repairs, especially for those engines that had less than 15k miles before the recall, were not guaranteed to keep working. According to the Wheels blog on NYtimes.com:
In a complaint filed with the Center for Auto Safety, Jeremy Berens of Vienna, Va., said his 2003 Accord was recalled when it had fewer than 15,000 miles on the odometer. But it failed in December, with the mileage at about 67,000, as he tried to merge onto a busy highway.
“I was nearly rear-ended and had no warning,” he wrote in his complaint. “Honda has not properly fixed the recall that occurred in 2004 and are failing to recognize that a problem exists.”
He said Honda agreed to pay 40 percent of the repair after the district manager interceded on his behalf, but it still cost him $2,750.
2006 Honda Transmission Class Action Settlement
In 2006 a class-action lawsuit was settled against Honda in the Superior Court of California for Alameda County. The suit claimed that Honda misled consumers by selling them vehicles with defective transmissions. Honda settled the case without ever admitting a defect and denied the charges.
Owners covered in the lawsuit were given an extension of the transmission warranty to 93 months or 109,000 miles (whichever comes first), starting when the vehicle is first purchased or leased. According to court records, the plaintiff’s lawyers received nearly $5.5 million in addition to expenses, according to court records.
The models covered were the 2000–1 Accord; 1999–2001 Odyssey; 2000–1 Prelude; 1999–2 Acura 3.2 TL and 2001–2 Acura 3.2 CL. The problem is most of those vehicles are well past the 93-month time limit and some owners are unhappy because they're left to cover the bill when their transmissions fail outside the warranty extension, with repairs sometimes costing up to $4,000.
#17570 of 18437 Re: Actual 2013 Nissan Altima CVT video..... [wayne21]
Feb 19, 2013 (2:57 pm)
thanks for the info. Now I guess we can get back to discussing midsize cars in general and not Honda transmissions as the problem was 10+ years ago.
#17571 of 18437 Re: Owner experience - 13 Accord EX-L vs. 11 Sonata Ltd [benjaminh]
Feb 19, 2013 (3:09 pm)
2012 Optima was rated good on IIHS test across the board. Big reason to buy for me. 3 kids under 12. Kia sweated the details. In 15 months and as many miles, not one thing has gone wrong on my car.
The Audi designer/engineer that Kia hired away (Peter Schreyer) knows his stuff. A better set of tires would make a big difference in handling. I am looking forward to a Set of Pirelli's at 30k.
#17572 of 18437 Re: Owner experience - 13 Accord EX-L vs. 11 Sonata Ltd [cski]
Feb 19, 2013 (5:08 pm)
What kind of tires were standard?
And yes, the Optima is a very nice car. It has a lot of style, quality, value, and performance for the money. And made in USA+++
Like you I like Peter S's work, but at least we agree he should fix those blind spots for the next gen.
#17574 of 18437 Honda CVT shudder/hesitation
Feb 19, 2013 (8:43 pm)
I may soon be in the market for a midsize and the accord is one of the cars I would consider. After reading about the complaints about the CVT shuddering/pulsing I did a quick search and found the article below. If I get an accord I think I may just wait a year to see if they get this worked out.
Honda Cvt Gearbox Problems:
Drive Belt Slip
The CVT gearbox drive-belt slippage problem mentioned by the website Honda Problems occurs during acceleration. The problem affects the automatic transmission, causing the car to shudder and hesitate when accelerating. The CVT gearbox may also affect acceleration, causing speed reduction when the engine is about to make maximum revolutions per minute.
CVT gearbox noise related to clutch slip during acceleration is mentioned by TRNW.com. The noise is generated via the pulley and belt system that supports the gear ratio change-through. Adjusting the belt back to position corrects the problem.
The CVT gearbox automatic transmission ATF fluid leaks mentioned by Honda Problems cause low ATF level and require top off. A dealer should check a CVT gearbox to make adjustments as recommended in the manufacturer's car owner's manual