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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18428 messages,  Last post on Jun 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1755 of 1844

#17536 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [gogophers1] by benjaminh

Feb 18, 2013 (7:35 am)

Replying to: gogophers1 (Feb 17, 2013 9:50 pm)
Thanks for your reviews as you decide which midsize sedan to get. Seems like each of us who own our particular car want to put in our 2 cents for our brand. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm going to do the same.
 
Over the last 13 years I've owned one new Ford (a 2000 Focus ZTS 5 MT), one new Mazda (a 2010 Mazda5 5MT), and two new Hondas (a 2002 Accord LX 5 MT and a 2008 Accord EXL Navi 5 MT). They were all good cars from a performance perspective, and even in term of the "shift feel" of the manuals. I slightly prefer the Honda manuals, and generally reading reviews you'll find that most reviewers agree. Mazda is a close second or maybe equal. When you drive the new Accord manual I think you'll find what I think of as an almost "jewel-like precision" to the manual.
 
For acceleration 0-60 with the manual the Accord seems to have a real advantage. Here are the times I've found with the site 0-60:
 
2014 Mazda6 Sport 6MT: 7.3
 
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Mazda-0-60-mph-Times.html
 
2013 Ford Fusion 1.6 0-60: 7.9
 
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Ford-0-60-mph-Times.html
 
2013 Honda Accord Sport 6 MT 0-60: 6.7!
 
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Honda-Vtech-0-60-mph-Times.html
 
In other words, the 2013 Accord with the manual beats some of the competition by about a second. That's huge in my book, and about as fast as most 6 cylinders of just a few years ago.
 
In terms of reliability my Hondas were equal to the Mazda—very reliable high-quality vehicles.
 
My 2000 Ford Focus was a nightmare with literally two dozen recalls, including one for possible engine fire. I know Ford has improved, but the recalls and problems with the new Fusion (including a recall for engine fire) seem to show that Ford still has some work to do.
 
Of the cars you're considering, the Honda is made right here in the USA at their factory in Ohio. They've recently released a factory tour video that shows step by step how your Accord is made:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBluTaWjPIU
 
I've owned two Accords built at this factory, and am now in negotiations to try to get a third. Those Marysville Honda Associates do very good work imho.
 
The Fusion is made in Mexico for now. Nothing against our good neighbors down south, but I personally prefer made in USA by relatively high wage workers.
 
The Mazda is made in Japan. The yen has been quite high until recently, and that has hurt Mazda. I think they've had to cut costs by cheapening some things in their vehicles. Probably the Mazda6 has not been affected by this, since it's a new signature model to get them back in the game, but my 2010 Mazda5 does seem cheap in some areas (like dashboard plastics and standard tires) that I don't find on my Hondas.
 
My experience with the Mazda, in other words, good though it's been, has convinced me to go back to Honda.
 
Just my 2 cents. Hope you'll let us know how it goes and what you decide.

#17537 of 18428 test drive impressions for 2013 Accord by benjaminh

Feb 18, 2013 (7:28 am)

Yesterday I did a test drive on a loaded Accord EXL. Having owned two previous Accords from past generations I could immediately sense that Honda has upped its game for this generation. This leather model seemed almost Audi-like in refinement and luxury. The technology was not just amazing, but seemed useful too.
 
The 2013 Accord seems significantly quieter than my 2008 EXL. The road noise, one of Hondas weak points for many years, has finally been addressed. The fit and finish was impressive, and all that I'd been expecting from the good reviews.
 
Even though on the test drive I went on the Interstate and some winding two lane roads, I can't say for sure if the handling and steering were better or worse than the 2008 Accord (which has hydraulic steering and double wishbone front suspension).
 
I would say for now it was just as good, if not better, but different in feel.
 
Trying to negotiate now for a 2013 EXL navi in red. It's a very rare model, and so not sure how it will go. I'm not in a place where I have to buy a car, and so if we need to wait until summer for it to work we can do that....

#17538 of 18428 Re: Motorweek comparison test [ivan_99] by backy

Feb 18, 2013 (7:54 am)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Feb 17, 2013 11:11 pm)
Image the 88 accord with 98hp and 4) 200 lb people in it
 
You are missing the point. What was the 0-60 time of that 1988 Accord, even with the LX-i's fuel injected engine? Nowhere close to 5.6 secs, no matter how light it was. Yet people loved that car, and managed just fine.
 
My wife's 2007 Sonata had "only" 162 hp and a 4-speed slushbox. Yet it was more than quick enough to move out when needed. Her new 2013 has 198 hp, but the car is about the same weight as the 2007. And of course the Sonata can be had with over 270 horses.
 
Do people buy these mid-sized sedans to take them drag racing on weekends, or schlep from home to work to the mall? I think mostly the latter. Not sure how all that power helps there.

#17539 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [gogophers1] by scwmcan

Feb 18, 2013 (7:59 am)

Replying to: gogophers1 (Feb 17, 2013 10:29 pm)
I agree it would be a hassle, it was more a tounge in cheek comment. I really don't know why they would offer it here and not there, my guess would be the dealers say nobody buys them, so they aren't offered ( proving their point as they are not available, like wagons etc. )

#17540 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [benjaminh] by akirby

Feb 18, 2013 (8:26 am)

Replying to: benjaminh (Feb 18, 2013 7:35 am)
Ford's Hermosillo plant leads the company in manufacturing quality. High USA wages don't guarantee anything.

#17541 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [akirby] by benjaminh

Feb 18, 2013 (8:37 am)

Replying to: akirby (Feb 18, 2013 8:26 am)
That might well be true. But some people, like me, would somewhat prefer if more of the money they spent on a car stayed in the US working here. But for many that's not a consideration. Everyone gets to make their own choice....+++ And the Fusion is a great looking car with a lot of plusses, including the best braking time that I've seen.

#17542 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [bb49] by gogophers1

Feb 18, 2013 (11:50 am)

Replying to: bb49 (Feb 18, 2013 4:23 am)
I just recently read in a Motor Trend article that Mazda is going to be offering the Touring trim level with the manual as well, so I hope there's some validity to that. Unfortunately, it includes a bunch of equipment I could probably live with if I absolutely had to (vinyl seats, 19 inch wheels, "Commander Switch", etc.), but still doesn't give me entry to the sunroof (presently available only on the Grand Touring). I wish Mazda would just go the track Ford/GM/Chrysler have in the past and offer a sun/sound package on the base model. Problem solved.

#17543 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [cski] by gogophers1

Feb 18, 2013 (12:31 pm)

Replying to: cski (Feb 18, 2013 6:05 am)
I've never really understood the whole automated manual concept myself. I remember driving a new Dodge Stratus w/Chrysler's "Autostick" back in the late '90s and thinking afterward, "Why would anyone want one of these?" Thought the same thing when I test drove a VW with "Tiptronic" a few years later. And then again with an A3 dual clutch paddle shift a couple years after that. Since then, I think I've driven 20 or so different models - domestic and foreign - with some form of automated manual in them. And what's to say? They're still automatics (and I dislike them for all the same reasons).
 
I kind of wonder why manufacturers even bother with them. The percentage of automatic drivers who actively use them has to be smaller than the number of folks driving regular manuals. My parents, for instance, weren't even aware their new Volvo XC70 had a "Geartronic" shiftable auto until I pointed it out to them - 9 months after they brought the car home. They still don't use it (and I suspect they're probably glad they don't have to).
 
If I was forced to drive a slushbox, I wouldn't be in hunting in this segment anyway. There's a Chrysler dealer a block from my house and I'm forced to drive past a row of shiny new Chargers every day I leave home. To each his own, but that's the most attractive vehicle on the road today IMHO (even beats the new 6). And with Chrysler's never-ending rebateathon, a brand new HEMI model (with my requisite sunroof) can often be had for under $27K.
 
Like overweight ladies, I really wish I loved automatic transmissions. Life would be so much easier - there's certainly no shortage of them.

#17544 of 18428 Re: Back to midsize sedans [gogophers1] by cski

Feb 18, 2013 (12:50 pm)

Replying to: gogophers1 (Feb 18, 2013 12:31 pm)
I think the issue here could be geography. There is no way I am going to pump a clutch in DC traffic. It's hard on me and hard on the car. However, on the rare occasion that the beltway/395/95 highway is clear, I enjoy a spirited cruise. I don't own the turbo, but I do like to decelerate with my "slushbox" in manual, keep the rev's up, and shoot through a corner on full boil in 3rd then back to auto.
The Optima Turbo does not have a real dual-clutch automated manual either. It is the exact same 6 speed auto that is in the EX 2.4, with flappy paddles added on.
 
You use the term "slushbox" a lot, and it reminds me of the days of the "turbo-hydromatic" 3-60E GM 3 speed automatic. Today's 6-speed auto units are far more advanced, and extremely durable.

#17545 of 18428 Little mid-size sedan video-Motorweek by cski

Feb 18, 2013 (12:51 pm)

Check this out gang! http://video.pbs.org/video/2327020467

Messages Page 1755 of 1844

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