Last post on May 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#17438 of 18220 Re: In the Market [tundradweller1]
Feb 02, 2013 (7:12 am)
Thanks for your observations. Can you clarify a little what you mean about that the "sight lines are not great" on the Mazda6? I thought visibility would be pretty good in that car.
Several midsize cars have poor rear visibility, including, I think, Fusion, Optima, Sonata, Passat, Malibu, and Altima.
The best visibility is found in the Accord, and that's one of the hallmarks of Honda's designs: Form follows function. Some people say it's not exciting enough, but it works better than some competing designs for providing rear headroom and good visibility. You also can roll down your rear windows on an Accord almost all the way. Try that on the others. Can't do that on any of these others, I don't think, except the Camry and Mazda6.
My guess is that all of these cars will have very long lasting engines and transmissions. Probably all of them are designed to make it to 200k as long as all maintenance is done as scheduled and they are not used roughly. Will they all make it to 200k? Hard to say. Hyundai, Kia, and Honda now have direct injected engines, and I don't think many have yet gone more than 100k to test whether long term they have issues. In durability tests Ford's turbo DI engines seem to do very well. Ford engineers have strengthened several parts to make these engines pretty tough, and I'm sure all the others have too. Honda's CVT is new, but they've been building these for a while, and have apparently done a lot of engineering to design in long term durability. But with any new design there can be question marks. Anyway, I think we are all probably fairly safe for durability of engines and transmissions with all of these.
I'm sure you've thought of this already, but if you want fewer gadgets buy a base model—you'll save money now, and potentially trouble in the years ahead.
Even the base models of all of these cars are pretty lavishly equipped compared to midsize cars of 10 years ago.
Hope you'll let us know what you pick!
Feb 02, 2013 (7:27 am)
Granted the Mazda 6 has a smaller blind spot then the Sonata and yes the Accord so far has the best visibility. Chalk it up to the higher waist line, swooping roof designs of late.
Considering I'm driving a 2004 Taurus SE that's approaching 200,000 miles, maybe color my opinions old school
The Gadgets I don't mind and in fact embrace them (I'm rather digital for my age) I really like the touch screen on the 6. My comment was geared more toward manufacturers than my preferences. The safety features on the horizon look promising, some may even save the increasingly distracted from impending doom.
I didn't mention Toyota because I just am not interested in the most recalled brand in spite of their huge sales numbers. I agree that some people just buy them because they are so popular. Ironic as they rarely make the top 10 in various car magazine reviews.
These are heady times for car buyers. More competition, more options for the same money, better performance while returning improved mileage and safer vehicles. This is going to be fun!
#17440 of 18220 Re: Jan. midsize sales [benjaminh]
Feb 02, 2013 (10:13 am)
Thanks Ben. The mid size sedan racket has got to keep corporate sales managers up at night. Particularly the VW man.
I think the Passat looks fine; but you really have to lux-it-up to match the levels of equipment in some competitors. Why would I buy a 5 cyl engine with 30 horsepower and 15 torque's less than a four? MPG of 22/32 is ok, but that 5th cylinder is costing you at least 4 mpg hwy and 2-4 city based on competition. Also, it costs 26,800 for the Automatic. vs 20-24 for competitors. a 5 speed manual is std on the SE. (where is the other gear?? all competitors who offer a manual trans have 6 speeds).
Again though, it depends on priorities I guess. It has a huge back seat and trunk. Fit and finish are excellent.
You guys should know that I owned a 96 TDI so be nice!
#17441 of 18220 Re: In the Market [tundradweller1]
Feb 02, 2013 (10:23 am)
I just saw a review of the 2014 Mazda 6. I really like the 2.2 liter TD with 310 torques!!! 310!!! From a 2.2!!
Now that's more like it Mazda. Also, the new interior is awesome looking. The flat screen is integrated nicely and Automobile magazine raved about the seats. They look comfy in the pictures. YES I AM SAYING NICE THINGS ABOUT THE 6 BACKY!!!
Lastly, I can't get with the silly grin front end. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
#17442 of 18220 Re: In the Market [benjaminh]
Feb 02, 2013 (10:46 am)
"Several midsize cars have poor rear visibility, including, I think, Fusion, Optima, Sonata, Passat, Malibu, and Altima"
So pretty much all mid-size sedans have poor rear visibility!
#17443 of 18220 Re: In the Market [cski]
Feb 02, 2013 (10:50 am)
Doesn't have the "silly grin" anymore. It was the Mazda3 that got all the hate for the grin as the 2 gen 6 didn't really have it as much. The new 2014 doesn't have the grin at all. Below is a quote from Augo Guide review which most other reviewers have agreed with.
NEW BODY STYLE SWAPS SMILE FOR SERIOUS FACE
It wears the second production application of Mazda’s new KODO design language, losing the smiling front end and exclamatory headlights for a more pronounced grille and sharper body style.
#17444 of 18220 2012 Optima EX.
Feb 02, 2013 (11:06 am)
#17445 of 18220 Re: Jan. midsize sales [cski]
Feb 02, 2013 (11:20 am)
"...I think the Passat looks fine; but you really have to lux-it-up to match the levels of equipment in some competitors. Why would I buy a 5 cyl engine with 30 horsepower and 15 torque's less than a four? MPG of 22/32 is ok, but that 5th cylinder is costing you at least 4 mpg hwy and 2-4 city based on competition. Also, it costs 26,800 for the Automatic. vs 20-24 for competitors. a 5 speed manual is std on the SE. (where is the other gear?? all competitors who offer a manual trans have 6 speeds)..."
Agree with all of this. The Passat is a nice looking car. And I think VW has significantly improved quality and reliability. But to cut costs they cut some things that are now making them less competitive. I read somewhere that for the 2014 model year the Passat is going to have a more advanced engine, and maybe they'll get a 6 speed manual with that.
For now, however, VW is blowing them out the door with 0% financing for 66 (!) months. Good deal on a good car!
Feb 02, 2013 (11:24 am)
KIA has some great deals on the Optima too.... 0.9% for 36 months, or $199 lease, or $2000 bonus rebate if you own a competing car!
Feb 02, 2013 (4:33 pm)
Not to correct you but the new Mazda 6 has a 2.5 liter. If you can find a dealership with one test, drive it. The gal that went with me encouraged me to stuff it into corners and rocket out of them. I was pleasently surprised. Being a Motorcycle nut I am ready for a fun car to drive. Now just waiting for some current magazine road tests. If the new 6 truly returns near 38 mpg it's a lock.
Also regarding the 2.5 - 5 cyl. Passat, they have been making that motor since 2005. No wonder it does not measure up in performance and economy.