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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18220 messages,  Last post on May 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1722 of 1823

#17205 of 18220 Re: mileage improvement with time [pod] by mtnman1

Dec 10, 2012 (3:53 pm)

Replying to: pod (Dec 10, 2012 11:11 am)
I have found that in the many vehicles we have owned over the years that mileage does in fact improve as more miles are put on them. My 2009 Fusion SEL V6 initially got around the posted estimate of 26mpg Hwy. At about 5000 it started improving to the point that now with out fail it gets 30mpg Hwy with the cruise set at 70mph. It was the same with a 2003 Hyundai Sonata V6 for me. With that one once I got to 10,000 miles it started getting about 29 to 30 mpg Hwy. I really am convinced that cars have to have the engines thoroughly broken in before they hit their peak Mpg. I think Mpg can be helped by taking it easy in the first 1000 miles of a new car even though most manufacturers state there is really not a break in period anymore.

#17206 of 18220 Re: mileage improvement with time [mtnman1] by sdcal2

Dec 10, 2012 (8:25 pm)

Replying to: mtnman1 (Dec 10, 2012 3:53 pm)
That may have been true years and years ago but should not be today. There is no piston slop as in years ago where the rings finally seat ( is that the correct word) after heating and cooling. One thing, I hope someone can explain is how FORD can say you can use either 87 or 91 octane fuel??? Is this a high compression engine or not??? Being so tiny I would certainly think 91 would be a requirement but if it takes both??? if that was true wouldn't the computer have to retard the engine? Isn't that in all other manufactures engine warranty considered abuse along with a high chance for engine damage using 87 in a high comp engine? I know what the difference is between octane calcualtion and I realize as opposed to most morons out there that there is no such thing as premium

#17207 of 18220 Fusion Fire Recall, Ford did it again by sdcal2

Dec 10, 2012 (8:49 pm)

So I understand there is a software fix for my daughters 2013 Fusion 1.6 along with all the Escapes. The claim is that the engine overheats because of pressure lost in the cooling system reducing coolant flow which allows boiling coolant in the top half of the engine. Like what happened on cars 30 years ago after you have your coolant changed and it needs to BURP the air trapped out.
 
So... there have been no fires in any of the European Ford Escapes and Fusions (so they day)... What up with that??? Seems European engines run a different program that provides coolant flow even if the system looses presure. So why would US Ford run a different program??? One thing I have learned over the years is if you change one thing you change something else. That program is different for a reason... MPG??? Whatever, I bet in 6 months there will be some design change on the 1.6 engine no matter how small there will be a serial number break???

#17208 of 18220 Re: mileage improvement with time [sdcal2] by akirby

Dec 11, 2012 (8:41 pm)

Replying to: sdcal2 (Dec 10, 2012 8:25 pm)
It's not the compression that changes - it's the timing. Advancing the timing will yield better performance but also increases knock. Ford's ECM strategy in some vehicles (all Ecoboost vehicles I think) will advance the timing as much as possible and then back it off if the vehicle knocks. This will allow improved power on 91 octane vs. 87. This is no different than what most tuners do - they simply advance the timing requiring higher octane.

#17209 of 18220 Re: Fusion Fire Recall, Ford did it again [sdcal2] by akirby

Dec 11, 2012 (8:43 pm)

Replying to: sdcal2 (Dec 10, 2012 8:49 pm)
The cooling system design is different on the U.S. spec 1.6L EB engines - that's why the Euro versions aren't affected. It's a software fix to not close a valve that controls coolant flow under certain conditions.

#17210 of 18220 Re: Fusion Fire Recall, Ford did it again [sdcal2] by cski

Dec 12, 2012 (6:37 am)

Replying to: sdcal2 (Dec 10, 2012 8:49 pm)
The reason there have been no fires on British Fusion, is due to a minor coolant formulation change.
 
You see, all European Ford Fusion/ Escape 1.6 Eco-boosts use Guinness Stout as its primary coolant.
 
The Brits have also found that it works great as hydraulic brake fluid.
 
I hear rumors that...along with sugarcane; cheap Vodka will be tested as "flex fuel".
 
I went down the rows of new cars at my local Sheehy Ford I just was checking out what they had on the lot. $48,000 for an SHO???? $39,000 for a 1.6 Eco-boost Fusion? OMG. I saw quite a few good deals too...like a new Focus ST for 28 grand.
 
I have been pulling for Ford for a long time.....just hoping they end up on top, but they have some Quality is Job 1 issues to improve.

#17211 of 18220 Re: Fusion Fire Recall, Ford did it again [akirby] by gimmestdtranny

Dec 12, 2012 (7:42 am)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 11, 2012 8:43 pm)
It's a software fix to not close a valve that controls coolant flow under certain conditions.
 
Now I KNOW I'm getting old. I remember a time when a little mechanical device did exactly the same thing. And surprise surprise, it even worked with FI turbo charged engines. It was called a....wait for it.... thermostat! It was rarely troublesome and even when it was, was a do-it-yourself re and re and affordable to boot. And you didn't have to be in $bed$ with the manufacturer to fix it either.
 
Right-to-repair..
We are allowing this bed to be made for us and they've finally got us right where they always wanted us.. by the short and curly$.
 
Global warming...."climate change". Pfffttttt...now they are talking about sending a particulate matter into the atmosphere to reflect heat from the sun, with the intent to help chill the Arctic and slow the ice melt. Crazy idiots shouldn't be messing with stuff just to ensure they have a job they created for themselves that could well cause a return of the Ice Age...that wouldn't help us much either would it?
What does this have to do with software having control over coolant temps in a new FORD? The quest to be..according to them.. cleaner/greener of course. :totally rolling eyes here:
 
Sigh.... take me back to the simpler days of a pretty good mid-size sedan I had back in the good ol' days...my 69 Falcon. With a simple thermostat...a simple solenoid bolted to the fender, a simple set of points that could be cleaned up with better half's nail file on the side of the road..and if need be..swapping out her underwear for a busted fan/water pump belt. And coincidently..that action had it's spin-off perks too sometimes..if ya know what I mean..

#17212 of 18220 Re: Fusion Fire Recall, Ford did it again [gimmestdtranny] by gregg_vw

Dec 12, 2012 (9:19 am)

Replying to: gimmestdtranny (Dec 12, 2012 7:42 am)
Yes, thermostats work great and are generally reliable. However, they cannot make minute and instantaneous adjustments designed to find more power, emit fewer pollutants, and use less fuel. Every situation has its drawbacks, but modern engines could not get the hp, torque and fuel savings we now enjoy without the huge computing power of modern vehicles. There is less to do under there, but less goes wrong. The reliability of even the most mediocre current vehicles greatly exceeds anything sold back in the 60s. They last much longer too, with much less maintenance required. But you are right...you generally can't fix much on the side of the road anymore.
 
Also, remember, "they" is generally us. We elect people, or we buy their products, and we usually expect our culture and our governing bodies to meet our needs, even though everybody is an expert and everybody has preferences that conflict with those of others.
 
I was around in the good old days, and while some things may have worked better, other things did not. Much of what we know now had not yet been conceived. Time only moves one way. On the whole, I prefer my present 3.0 liter six cylinder with 300 hp and instant on in whatever weather to the lethargic and thirsty V8 in my old Galaxie 500, or the gutless straight six that was in my 65 Mustang and 63 Falcon.

#17213 of 18220 Re: Fusion Fire Recall, Ford did it again [gregg_vw] by gimmestdtranny

Dec 12, 2012 (10:59 am)

Replying to: gregg_vw (Dec 12, 2012 9:19 am)
Yes Greg, the Falcon was certainly no ball of fire. And I understand your post content. But I think the pendulum has swung too far though on the upstroke. We have had very impressively fuel efficient, 'green' and quick cars for a number of years already, that didn't have the..not sure how to say...dependence on the dealer/manufacturer to the degree that they seem to be in recent years.
 
As for dependability, I guess I am not recalling this the same as you have. If a car is reliable and has a good rep, yes, it does seem to be the case to a greater degree than yesteryears, but if it has issues, they seem to be a lot more elusive and problematic for the guinea pigs which of course are the unfortunate owners. I could cite many many examples, but know this isn't the place for it.
 
I know that in all new designs there are bound to be teething issues. But at a certain point, the degree at which we are experimented on or with (our $, time, inconvenience, stress, etc etc) is excessive. I get that they are anxious to try to get some $ back after seeing so many go out in R&D, but IMO, they spend too little test-time in their own hands before unleashing these inevitable unpleasant surprises on the consumer. These recent issues with FORD's new entries is a prime example of that. And when a new design has already been released overseas years prior, there are even fewer excuses for issues with that vehicle here.

#17214 of 18220 What Sheehy Ford has on it's lot.... by cski

Dec 12, 2012 (11:27 am)

Replying to: puppybone69 (Nov 20, 2012 2:33 am)
I drove over the to try and make some sense of all of this.Once I drive through an acre of Foci' and Mustangs I finally entered Fusion land. One of the Fusions' had its hood partially open, so I opened to the hood to get a gander and right on the plastic engine cover it had a TSB#. (sorry had no pen). It was a 1.6
 
I looked further down the line, and there were 4 more Fusi', all 1.6 models. They were locked tight....but I bet TSB tags were on them too.
 
It is very hard to bring a competitive midsize sedan to market.
 
I really, really enjoyed my 5 minute test drive I took in a 2.0 Ecoboost. It was quick, but after getting out the windshield feel off the track a bit, leaving a 1/2" gap to get rained in. service guy came over and but a tarp over it.
 
So, this concludes my Ford shopping. For about 1 year considering all the little niggles ford has yet to excise.

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