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Midsize Sedans 2.0

18205 messages,  Last post on May 22, 2013 at 3:13 PM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1720 of 1821

#17186 of 18205 Re: 2013 fusion production delays [serenity185] by gogophers1

Dec 07, 2012 (3:51 pm)

Replying to: serenity185 (Dec 01, 2012 3:38 pm)
I think the best cure for Ford desire is to already own one. Had I not purchased a new Focus two years ago, I'd be very interested in bringing home a new Fusion - an SE in Ginger Ale metallic with a manual transmission. But this idea of Ford quality being comparable to that of Honda or Toyota - forget about it.
 
I loved my Focus when I first took it home, but the honeymoon was a short one. Not more than a couple months later, the problems began to mount. It's been in the service dept. 7 times now for a suspension issue that, after the replacement of numerous suspension and steering-related parts, they still haven't been able to figure out. That's right - suspension issues (on a car that isn't even 3 years old). What am I driving - a 35 year old Duster with a rusted out frame?
 
The new Fusion may be one of the sharpest looking and handling mid-sizers out there, but at what price do you value your spare time? Before you sign on the dotted line, you need to ask yourself how much you enjoy running back and forth to the service department because getting "those little new car bugs" worked out of your Ford could become your avocation for the next few years.
 
Headlight problems, engine fires, electrical system failures - does anyone really believe that something magical occurs after one design problem is fixed that will prevent other reliability and safety issues from popping up a year or two down the road? How about 5? How much of your time and money are you willing to wager?
 
I wish Ford was building consistent, quality vehicles today, but it's just not the case. Look at the facts - it's not just bugs and useability issues with their infotainment systems that have landed them at the bottom of the heap in the latest reliability surveys.
 
While the 2013 Accord may not have the style or swagger of the new Ford, at least if the Honda proves troublesome, a forced trade in won't present you with a giant financial black eye. Try trading in one of these 2013 Fords two years from now and you'll get a painful lesson (one I'm currently feeling) in resale values.

#17187 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [akirby] by m6user

Dec 07, 2012 (5:12 pm)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 07, 2012 2:32 pm)
Ford is required by law to execute the EPA tests and report the results on the window sticker. This is not their own test - it's somebody else's test and it's required.
 
Well, duh. Most everyone knows this. I thought you said the EPA tests were not completed yet and the numbers that CR was looking at were just Fords preliminary numbers. Which is it? Are the numbers CR was using for comparison the actual EPA numbers or not?
 
Again, you choose to downplay the CR tests as being suspect. They test cars all year long in the same exact manner in. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc etc. They have never had such a large discrepancy before. Do the CR test cars from Ford have the optional tires? I didn't read that anywhere.
 
CR doesn't use the EPA test cycle but it does use the same test for all the cars they test and it's more of real world type of test. Most cars test a little lower than EPA from what I've seen but they are usually close. I guess all the other hybrids they have tested over the years did not have some kind of optional tires and were done on perfect weather days using neither A/C or heaters. Only Ford had the dumb luck of being tested with fat tires and cold weather. What are the chances? Problem is, I remember a first drive or something like that and I think it was Edmunds, where the C-max results were equally as poor as CR's and I believe that was done earlier this fall. Don't know about fat tires though. Maybe a huge headwind in their test. I'm sure there is some crazy reason though.

#17188 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [m6user] by akirby

Dec 07, 2012 (7:45 pm)

Replying to: m6user (Dec 07, 2012 5:12 pm)
I never said anything about the EPA tests not being completed (not recently at least). I was only addressing the statement that Ford was advertising the 47 mpg rating and should therefore be held more accountable for it for some reason.
 
All hybrids get worse fuel mileage in winter and Fords engines do need a few thousand miles break-in. They do offer optional tires that are not low rolling resistance. Winter blend fuel and ethanol will yield lower mpg than the EPA ratings.
 
Does the CR test indicate that a closer look is needed? Yes. Does it mean that the vehicles in question can't hit 47 mpg on the EPA test? Absolutely not. And the only way to find out is to retest one using the EPA test, not some marginally controlled super secret test by CR.

#17189 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [akirby] by aviboy97

Dec 07, 2012 (8:40 pm)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 07, 2012 11:29 am)
I seem to have read that CR drove each car for 2,000 miles. I don't see a publicity stunt here. Just because you do not agree with their findings, does not negate their results. Running E10 in winter does not account for 14mpg off the EPA estimate and I have no doubt the EPA has not tested either car themselves.
 
My in-laws have a 2013 Escape 1.6L Turbo AWD and get 19-20 mpg combined and have 1,600 miles on it. If they were to post or write about their results, would that be considered a publicity stunt too?
 
Unfortunately, there is an abundance of negative news around Ford's newer technology stemming from the EcoBoost F-150's, Escape's and some Fusions. Now add to the mix the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid.

#17190 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [aviboy97] by akirby

Dec 07, 2012 (9:02 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Dec 07, 2012 8:40 pm)
I'm not saying there isn't a problem. I'm saying it's too early to raise a red flag the way CR raised a red flag.
 
I hope Ford and the EPA retest these vehicles quickly and either confirm the EPA results or confirm there is a problem and fix it.

#17191 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [akirby] by m6user

Dec 07, 2012 (9:11 pm)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 07, 2012 7:45 pm)
not some marginally controlled super secret test by CR.
 
If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have said the above. CR has explained exactly how they test for MPG. I've read it and it is very controlled and in two directions to account for any wind resistance. It's far from secret as they spell it out in their annual auto issue.
 
So I take it from your reply that you really don't know if the cars CR tested had the optional tires or not. Only that Ford offers them. So does Toyota with the Prious BTW. So now it's that Fords engines need so much more break-in, much more than the other brand new cars from other manufactures that CR tests. Heck, even the Hyundai Hybrid wasn't as far off and they have admitted they screwed up. I don't know if CR uses uses winter blend fuel or if they keep a supply of summer blend on hand for testing but even if they don't, wouldn't other makes be subject to the same winter blend and ethanol if applicable? Wouldn't all the reasons you have given affected all tested cars the same? Are Fords that different?

#17192 of 18205 Ford Ford and more Ford recalls... by cski

Dec 08, 2012 (10:13 am)

I hate to break it to you guys, but I just read that more Fusions have been recalled for a headlight lens hazing problem. It is caused by it's bulb's heat.
 
Not a biggie by itself, but considering all the other recalls, Ford has to stop the bleeding due to delay after delay resulting in zero sales. I know Ford will end up on top of things, but can you imagine the pressure the production supervisors are under to get these cars right? Wow.
 
A bit of levity at Ford's expense is all they need , but I just read that last March Ford sent out 300,000 memory stick's. They were sent to Ford owners to fix the My-Ford-Touch system. Download time? 1 hour. During the 1/2 of installation time you can't change anything in the car such as A/C and stereo.
 
Ford suggested in a U tube video to install it "on a long trip when you will not need to use the stereo or climate controls". Ford went on to suggest "doing a crossword puzzle, read a book, or whatever you feel like doing".
 
Perhaps smashing the dash with a sledgehammer?

#17193 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [m6user] by akirby

Dec 08, 2012 (10:36 am)

Replying to: m6user (Dec 07, 2012 9:11 pm)
Get a car and rerun the EPA test and see if they get 47 mpg. Any other testing or speculation is irrelevant. Too many variables.
 
Yes, Ford engines require around 5K miles to yield maximum mpg. Winter blend fuel lowers mpg compared to the EPA test. Optional tires lower mpg if they are not LRR. Winter heat requirements lower mpg in hybrids.
 
All those COULD explain CRs lower mileage. Maybe something changed with the driver or the course.
 
I'm not saying there isn't a problem - there could be something that changed in production or a bad part of software. But the only way to know is to rerun the EPA test the same way it was run before. Anything else is apples to oranges.

#17194 of 18205 Re: Ford Ford and more Ford recalls... [cski] by puppybone69

Dec 08, 2012 (10:45 am)

Replying to: cski (Dec 08, 2012 10:13 am)
Oh, joy. Is this a separate issue from the original headlight problems a couple months ago?

#17195 of 18205 Re: Why I'm still waiting for a new Ford Fusion [akirby] by backy

Dec 08, 2012 (10:45 am)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 08, 2012 10:36 am)
In the same test (CR), they got well over 40 mpg highway on the new Altima 2.5 with CVT. Odd how a conventional and relatively powerful 4-banger can easily over-achieve the EPA ratings on CR's test, but the Ford hybrids cannot. Most cars in fact get over the EPA rating on CR's highway test. But they tend to under-achieve on the CR test compared to the EPA city rating, as CR's "city" test is pretty severe (read "more real world") from what I've read about it.

Messages Page 1720 of 1821

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