Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#17082 of 20239 Re: Hybrid, or not? [backy]
Nov 05, 2012 (5:34 am)
"If you read that report, you should have noticed that the only Sonatas and Optimas included in the EPA estimates reset are the hybrids... not the regular ICE cars."
GST responds with:
If you had read this report you would find that your report and this one vary wildly with affected cars.
See link below, and note the following additional cars involved which are NOT hybrids.
Hyundai's Elantra, Accent, Azera, Genesis, Tucson, Veloster and Santa Fe.
Kia's Sorrento, Rio, Soul, Sportage
"The errors involve 13 models from the 2011 through 2013 model years, including seven Hyundais and six Kias. Window stickers will have to be changed on some versions of the following models: Hyundai's Elantra, Sonata Hybrid, Accent, Azera, Genesis, Tucson, Veloster and Santa Fe. Kia models affected include the Sorrento, Rio, Soul, Sportage and Optima Hybrid."
Nov 05, 2012 (5:47 am)
A reporter is looking for a recent car buyer whose car's sunroof/moonroof feature was a big factor in their purchase decision. Please send your daytime contact info to smaredmunds.com no later than Monday, November 5, 2012 at 5 p.m. Pacific.
#17085 of 20239 Re: Hybrid, or not? [plekto]
Nov 05, 2012 (5:50 am)
I agree with some of the points you make here.
Crash tests are also manipulated in much the same way. Actually, the test itself is not necessarily manipulated, but the structure/design of the car is built in anticipation of said crashes.
If you notice the link I posted above to backy, it is interesting to note that Hyundia and Kia are taking a very responsible stance for their errors and are issuing prepaid debit cards to original owners. They are calculated to represent the difference mpg claims in 15k miles per year + an additional 15% for life of ownership of that car to original owner.
Even though it still could be a very well handled damage-control maneuver, regardless of motive of the original (potential) misrepresentation, it is being handled better than many other certain brands I can think of.
#17086 of 20239 Re: Hybrid, or not? [gimmestdtranny]
Nov 05, 2012 (6:02 am)
But I think you missed backy's point: while there were a number of ICE Kias and Hyundais that over-estimated mpg, ICE Sonatas and Optimas were not among them.
#17087 of 20239 Re: Hybrid, or not? [gregg_vw]
Nov 05, 2012 (6:41 am)
Thanks for the reminder that this is a discussion about MID-SIZED SEDANS... not compacts, subcompacts, near-luxury cars, sporty cars, SUVs etc.
#17089 of 20239 Re: Hybrid, or not? [plekto]
Nov 05, 2012 (1:55 pm)
It's entirely possible that the car can get silly numbers on the EPA tests. Auto manufacturers have long known what the test is and often put in extra tall gears and alter the shift points so that the car is basically idling as much of the time as possible while it is on the dyno at those specific speeds. (ie - they'll make it shift into overdrive at 1-2mph lower than the city test speeds as an example)
They don't have to try that hard. I believe each manufacturer performs their own tests and shares that info with the EPA (fox guarding hen house). I think the EPA only performs the odd audit.
#17090 of 20239 Re: Tip of the iceberg? [tenpin288]
Nov 05, 2012 (2:02 pm)
Maybe they should make car buyers reimburse Manufacturers if they get better mileage. Had a 2003 Sonota V6 which I gave to my daughter (nearing 100,000 miles) and I got 30mpg on the highway. My Current Ford Fusion SEL V6 is rated at 19/26 and I always get close to 30mpg Hwy and around 18 or 19 city. My Wife's Highlander Limited 4WD V6 is rated 17/22 and we get close to the city mpg, but we get 23.5mpg on the highway. Traded a 2011 Kia Sorento EX FWD V6 for the Highlander and usually got 25mpg Hwy, but had trouble getting over 16 city.
#17091 of 20239 Re: Tip of the iceberg? [mtnman1]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Nov 05, 2012 (2:12 pm)
Only if the consumer falsifies the claim, and causes the manufacturer to spend money AFTER the transaction that was not anticipated, as a result of the consumer's false claim.