Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 7:13 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, Kia Optima, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#17069 of 20237 Concerning the new 2013 Ford Fusion...
Nov 03, 2012 (1:23 pm)
I like the looks of the Fusion, but quality concerns as of late and a particularly high sticker price for the equipment level I'd want leave me cold. I'll likely drive one soon enough, but the Ford dealer wasn't in the area where I was that particular afternoon.
What is this I hear about a "quality" problem with Ford of late? What is up with that? After doing so well for years their quality is falling? What do you guys attribute that to? Is it gibberish? Is it real?
I find it all hard ta believe. Fill me in. What is the cause of it and it is really real?
#17070 of 20237 Re: Concerning the new 2013 Ford Fusion... [iluvmysephia1]
Nov 03, 2012 (1:33 pm)
Grab a copy of the latest CR and read about their automaker reliability ratings. Ford's slide is documented there. And see also comments re the new Fusion's quality issues in the recent MT comparo (or could have been C/D, both had recent mid-sizer comparos).
Nov 03, 2012 (1:59 pm)
I'm headin' to our local Hasting's Book Store tonight and grabbing me a copy and reading up on it. I've only noticed one article on it and it wasn't definitive what was causing the problems. Mexican workers? Foreign workers? European?
Jealousy over Alan Mulally's earnings? When Alan Mulally was my boss at The Boeing Company's Everett Division, we would gossip about his boss-i-ness. But he was the boss. I mean, 'Where's the beef'?
#17072 of 20237 Re: Oh no... [iluvmysephia1]
Nov 03, 2012 (5:34 pm)
you have to look at the details. I believe it primarily had to do with the DSG (so just focus?) and the mytouch nonsense.
#17073 of 20237 Hybrid, or not?
Nov 04, 2012 (5:22 am)
Just read C/D's review of the Fusion Hybrid. Less quick than the old one, but averaged 32 mpg. I thought that sounded pretty good until I read CR's review of the Altima 2.5. They averaged 31 mpg and 44 mpg on the highway... and that car starts around $22k, thousands less than the Fusion.
Of course, maybe CR would get higher FE on the Fusion Hybrid than C/D did. But it's pretty amazing what can be achieved now with regular ICE powertrains on mid-sized cars... numbers that would look good even on a compact car. Will be interesting to see how the new Accord does in CR's tests. Too bad they didn't test it alongside the Altima.
#17074 of 20237 Re: Hybrid, or not? [backy]
Nov 04, 2012 (5:50 am)
I see Hyundai and Kia have been under the microscope for falsifying EPA mileage numbers. I'm not surprised. I thought the new Sonata's numbers looked a little too optimistic to me. As did their new Elantra.
I also don't think we would see that CR's Altima 2.5 with such impressive numbers if the car was loaded to..say...half to two thirds capacity, the way many of these cars will actually be going down the highway. That 44 (or 31 avg FTM) would be basically impossible for any length of time and simply not achievable in hilly country. I even wonder if it is truly representative of its potential if the A/C was on during entire review.
I am no Hybrid fan, beyond mere speculative curiosity due to my perception of real world longevity costs down the road long after wty, but I think in my example above, a hybrid or even the newer turbos tuned for economy, have the ability to more closely get the higher avg in real world use.
I feel the same way if you were to compare a regularly heavy footed driver in a CVT vs a conventional 6 speed auto. That type of driver will get higher mpg with the 6 speed.
#17075 of 20237 Re: Hybrid, or not? [backy]
Nov 04, 2012 (5:53 am)
Considering how c/d got 19 mpg in their recent test of the Altima ( in their comparision test) you can see how they tend to drive cars, so the 32 for the fusion hybrid is impressive, CR will almost definately get better results in their testing, so you will have to wait until they test it to get a true picture of the comparision ( I believe CR tries to duplicate the tests with every car they test, while C/D may not).
In any case the Altima CR results look good, but the ones from C/D don't so that should tell you not to compare the two mags economy results.
#17076 of 20237 Re: Hybrid, or not? [gimmestdtranny]
Nov 04, 2012 (10:14 am)
I see Hyundai and Kia have been under the microscope for falsifying EPA mileage numbers. I'm not surprised. I thought the new Sonata's numbers looked a little too optimistic to me.
If you read that report, you should have noticed that the only Sonatas and Optimas included in the EPA estimates reset are the hybrids... not the regular ICE cars.
#17077 of 20237 Re: Hybrid, or not? [gimmestdtranny]
Nov 04, 2012 (11:47 am)
It's entirely possible that the car can get silly numbers on the EPA tests. Auto manufacturers have long known what the test is and often put in extra tall gears and alter the shift points so that the car is basically idling as much of the time as possible while it is on the dyno at those specific speeds. (ie - they'll make it shift into overdrive at 1-2mph lower than the city test speeds as an example)
But in real-world driving, this results in an undriveable car, so most people do what comes naturally. They give it more gas to not be a hazard or die of boredom hyper-milling along like a 90 year old man. The most incredible example of this was the original Prius, which was completely silly and had to be altered downwards. (this was before the EPA changed the ratings as well).
GM andFord are also famous for this, but because they almost always use 6 cylinder engines in their vehicles, they can get away with the car being geared wrong since there's enough torque to still be driveable without flogging it or having to down-shift constantly.
#17078 of 20237 Re: Altima Sales [backy]
Nov 04, 2012 (12:13 pm)
I see tons of Sonatas, Camrys, Altimas, Malibus, and Fusions at the rental car dealerships. The only one I've seen few of and hard to find at the Rental companies are the Accord and Passat. Not, that you can't find them, but not in the abundance of the other 5.
If I was getting a mid-size sedan tomorrow, it would either be the Altima, Accord, or Passat.